Worked at the PFX tour this weekend - Part I: The Ugly

[BretMan]

Julio,

I was referring to plays at home plate only.

If you have a baseball mechanics manual, compare this to the ASA guidelines.

[Al]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Julio,

I was referring to plays at home plate only.

If you have a baseball mechanics manual, compare this to the ASA guidelines.

Thanks guys!

I just found the following information on a web site...

MISSED TAG OR BASE RULE

The first answer is from the N.A.P.B.L Umpire Manual which is now available in bookstores. The second is from clinics I've attended and articles in "Referee" magazine:

"On a play at the plate, should the runner miss home plate and the fielder miss the tag on the runner, the umpire shall make no signal on the play. The runner must be tagged if he attempts to return to the plate; if he continues on his way to the bench, the defense may make an appeal."

"On a play at first base where the runner beats the catch of the throw, but misses first base, the umpire signals and calls safe. The runner beat the throw so he is safe. The missing of the base is an appeal of a base running infraction and must be made by the defense, not the umpire. If the defense appeals before he returns to the base you then call the runner out." Don't ask me why the two plays are handled differently. I don't know. They just are according to the official rulings. Submitted by: Jim Booth

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I don't know what baseball league I was playing under all the years I played but it was in New Jersey and there was always a "no call" when the runner missed the plate even if the defense was ten feet away. Glad I didn't have this situation happen when I was behind the plate a few times towards the end of this season...especially during championship games. ...Thanks again... Al

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by Al

Thanks guys!

I just found the following information on a web site...

MISSED TAG OR BASE RULE

The first answer is from the N.A.P.B.L Umpire Manual which is now available in bookstores. The second is from clinics I've attended and articles in "Referee" magazine:

"On a play at the plate, should the runner miss home plate and the fielder miss the tag on the runner, the umpire shall make no signal on the play. The runner must be tagged if he attempts to return to the plate; if he continues on his way to the bench, the defense may make an appeal."

"On a play at first base where the runner beats the catch of the throw, but misses first base, the umpire signals and calls safe. The runner beat the throw so he is safe. The missing of the base is an appeal of a base running infraction and must be made by the defense, not the umpire. If the defense appeals before he returns to the base you then call the runner out." Don't ask me why the two plays are handled differently. I don't know. They just are according to the official rulings. Submitted by: Jim Booth

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I don't know what baseball league I was playing under all the years I played but it was in New Jersey and there was always a "no call" when the runner missed the plate even if the defense was ten feet away. Glad I didn't have this situation happen when I was behind the plate a few times towards the end of this season...especially during championship games. ...Thanks again... Al

I believe the difference is because one is a tag play and the other involves the throw beating the runner to the bag. The play at home also allows the runner to leave the field at the play's conclusion. In both cases, the D can appeal.

[Julio Caliente]

Originally Posted by Al

"On a play at the plate, should the runner miss home plate and the fielder miss the tag on the runner, the umpire shall make no signal on the play. The runner must be tagged if he attempts to return to the plate; if he continues on his way to the bench, the defense may make an appeal."

Damn, made me go pull out my little book and look it up. I was wrong on the play at home. I am apologize to all.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Julio Caliente

Damn, made me go pull out my little book and look it up. I was wrong on the play at home. I am apologize to all.

Julio, you were only wrong if this was played by baseball rules and baseball mechanics. Remember, this was played by ASA rules, so ASA mechanics prevail.

Under ASA mechanics, no ball equals no call. That means, when the runner isn't played on, there should not be a safe call. If the runner is played on, ie, a missed tag, and touches the plate, there is an immediate and appropriate safe call. If the runner is played on, missed tag, missed plate, you pause momentarily to differentiate from a touched plate timing, so you are not falsely suggesting to the defense that the runner did touch the plate. If the defense fails to pursue the play, then you signal "safe", because the runner is, at that moment safe; and failing to make any call is "telling" the defense the runner missed the plate. The missed plate is an appeal; we do not "tell" the defense that they should make an appeal play.

NCAA handles it differently, in a manner only a college coach could appreciate. By RULE, not just mechanics, an umpire must signal safe and verbalize "no tag" if the runner misses home, even if the defense doesn't attempt a tag!! IMO, one of the worst rules ever written; when I do that, I feel like they should issue me a glove, too, since I am working for the defense.

[Julio Caliente]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

NCAA handles it differently, in a manner only a college coach could appreciate. By RULE, not just mechanics, an umpire must signal safe and verbalize "no tag" if the runner misses home, even if the defense doesn't attempt a tag!! IMO, one of the worst rules ever written; when I do that, I feel like they should issue me a glove, too, since I am working for the defense.

Thanks for the help. I think what you said above is a stupid rule and is why I do not agree with the "no call" concept. They are basically the same thing. If you make no call at all it is like walking over to the coach and say "hey, they missed the base. You should appeal".


Well, I guess in ASA what i did was somewhat correct because I did wait extra time to make sure that what I saw was what I saw (yes she missed the plate) and that she didn't turn around for the plate before I signaled safe.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

NCAA handles it differently, in a manner only a college coach could appreciate. By RULE, not just mechanics, an umpire must signal safe and verbalize "no tag" if the runner misses home, even if the defense doesn't attempt a tag!! IMO, one of the worst rules ever written; when I do that, I feel like they should issue me a glove, too, since I am working for the defense.

Just can't understand it. More or less, the umpire is saying, "Yeah, you're safe now, but you're gonna be screwed in a second or two!"