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-   Softball (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/)
-   -   Patent Leather Belt (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/37631-patent-leather-belt.html)

NCASAUmp Tue Aug 21, 2007 09:01am
I'm a guy, and I have no idea what patent leather looks like (except for maybe those lovely knee-high boots ladies wear). So basically, I don't know if they look good as a belt or not. Maybe they do, maybe they don't.

However, Blu_IN does point out that it does take a while for ASA to change the style. Think of how long we had those button-down shirts that looked like something from the 70s.

The answer, in my opinion, is that one proper uniform (minus any chest protectors, masks, etc.) costs around $150 (slacks, shirt, hat, belt and shoes). Many umpires, like myself, have more than one complete uniform (I've got 5 uniforms with two extra shirts that I took out of the rotation). Would we really want to have to keep changing the uniform once every couple of years? I know I certainly wouldn't, and that's why I take such good care of the ones I already have.

Blu_IN Tue Aug 21, 2007 09:24am
and
 
And I am not saying that you should either put on the patent or go away. Far from it, some people are not going to want to wear it due to their personal opinions. However, its really annoying that when it comes to conference tournament time, I have to hang up my patent leather plate shoes and belt simply because the old guard refuses to accept the style.

At least come up with something other than it stands out, or looks flashy. It doesn't. The NCAA uniform is so unbelievably bland. What in the world is wrong with wanting to show some style. What is wrong with wanting to look as good as possible? If I feel that patent leather plate shoes and belt make for a better look, what's wrong with that?

Dakota Tue Aug 21, 2007 09:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_IN
So, those that want to change with the times, should not because the old fear change? That road goes both ways Irish.

BBK, you won't take me seriously because I misspell a word. Sorry if my time is valuable enough not to spell check my posts. Its a forum, not an important work memo/document.
You mistake (intentionally?) standards for fear. I guess it suits you to call those who set the uniform standards for the various organizations cowards. Because ASA or whoever wants a certain look for their umpires does not make them fearful of change or anything else. It merely makes them an organization that sets the standards. Some standards on uniforms are written, others are encouraged / discouraged. Patent leather shoes and belts fall into the latter (unwritten & discouraged) category. You are, of course, free to wear whatever your locals allow.

You might get a more useful response if you posted your question on the baseball board, where patent leather is accepted, since many of those guys ape whatever it is the MLB guys do and call that individuality.

As to speeling, if you new how to speel you woodn't have too use a speel chekker.

Steve M Tue Aug 21, 2007 09:29am
I've managed to stay out of this one, but so much for that.

I wear the patent leather shoes in games where players do not wear metal spikes - they are easier to clean and my personal opinion is that they look better. I do not wear a patent leather belt - they are too thick.

As for the number of uniforms - that's irrelevant. I choose to work in a number of different sanctioning bodies. Each has their own uniform(s), and I have just about all of them. I pay my registration to each and buy the uniforms of each. Since I changed to a smaller vehicle a couple of months ago, I don't carry all the uniforms all the time now.

As for the music wars, we "fixed" that. We've got 2 separate services and seldom do they mix. Great fix, huh? But that does keep us from having to build a bigger sanctuary.

AtlUmpSteve Tue Aug 21, 2007 09:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_IN
And I am not saying that you should either put on the patent or go away. Far from it, some people are not going to want to wear it due to their personal opinions. However, its really annoying that when it comes to conference tournament time, I have to hang up my patent leather plate shoes and belt simply because the old guard refuses to accept the style.

At least come up with something other than it stands out, or looks flashy. It doesn't. The NCAA uniform is so unbelievably bland. What in the world is wrong with wanting to show some style. What is wrong with wanting to look as good as possible? If I feel that patent leather plate shoes and belt make for a better look, what's wrong with that?
Probably because "showing some style" and having "a better look" isn't UNIFORM with the other umpires. If it isn't the same, it is different; and that, my friend, means it stands out.

Further, patent leather isn't some new idea that the "old guard" refuses it accept. It is an old idea, developed in 1818, that has been rejected as inappropriate from the beginning of softball uniforms, and continues to be unacceptable. Not newly rejected; never accepted. Showing some style is the baseball non-uniform uniform. Just watch the LLWS for inspiration.

Dakota Tue Aug 21, 2007 09:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCASAUmp
I'm a guy, and I have no idea what patent leather looks like ...
Here ya go...

http://www.tuxedosonline.com/images/...cko_BW_big.JPG

Steve M Tue Aug 21, 2007 09:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota

Yes, and they do reflect up.:D

Mountaineer Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M
I've managed to stay out of this one, but so much for that.

I wear the patent leather shoes in games where players do not wear metal spikes - they are easier to clean and my personal opinion is that they look better. I do not wear a patent leather belt - they are too thick.

As for the number of uniforms - that's irrelevant. I choose to work in a number of different sanctioning bodies. Each has their own uniform(s), and I have just about all of them. I pay my registration to each and buy the uniforms of each. Since I changed to a smaller vehicle a couple of months ago, I don't carry all the uniforms all the time now.

As for the music wars, we "fixed" that. We've got 2 separate services and seldom do they mix. Great fix, huh? But that does keep us from having to build a bigger sanctuary.
I have both patent leather and regular. I wear the patent leather on dry days when the dust is dominant and the regular ones during rainy/muddy days. I agree that the patent leather is easier to clean - simply wipe off and they are shiny as new. Our college supervisor and HS interpreter allows patent leather so we wear them. I also wear a belt that matches the shoes. I know that if I were to go to an NCAA regional that I'd need to wear the non-patent leather plate shoes.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_IN
So, those that want to change with the times, should not because the old fear change? That road goes both ways Irish.
Did someone just drop off a bale of straw? Ever hear of "majority rule"?

Blu_IN Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:26am
Uniformity
 
How do we lose uniformity by the plate umpire wearing patent leather? They are black, they are shined, they are as exactly as they should be. Patent leather belts. . . again black.

How exactly does that make us look out of uniform?

NCASAUmp Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_IN
How do we lose uniformity by the plate umpire wearing patent leather? They are black, they are shined, they are as exactly as they should be. Patent leather belts. . . again black.

How exactly does that make us look out of uniform?
Because to ASA, "uniform" is not only a noun, it's an adjective. :)

It's a preference issue, really. ASA doesn't want it, so I don't wear it. Could it spruce up an otherwise ugly uniform? Sure, but until ASA says it's okay...

We're at where we're at.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCASAUmp
I'm a guy, and I have no idea what patent leather looks like (except for maybe those lovely knee-high boots ladies wear). So basically, I don't know if they look good as a belt or not. Maybe they do, maybe they don't.
Many referred to them as "cheater" shoes especially in the military before synthetics like Corfam arrived on the scene.

Yes, they can look good and are easy to clean, but are not healthy for your feet. If you have a history of perspiring feet, you just as well wrap your feet in plastic bags.

The process includes treating the leather with a sealer much like the Leather Lustre many umpires use. And like the LL, the sealer will fill the pores of the leather and prevent it from breathing.

There are folks who don't want this type of apparel worn because it does bring attention to an individual umpire if all are not wearing the same thing. The problem is the perception of the teams that the umpire who is NOT wearing the bright, shiny uniform must not be a good umpire.

NCASAUmp Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
Many referred to them as "cheater" shoes especially in the military before synthetics like Corfam arrived on the scene.

Yes, they can look good and are easy to clean, but are not healthy for your feet. If you have a history of perspiring feet, you just as well wrap your feet in plastic bags.

The process includes treating the leather with a sealer much like the Leather Lustre many umpires use. And like the LL, the sealer will fill the pores of the leather and prevent it from breathing.

There are folks who don't want this type of apparel worn because it does bring attention to an individual umpire if all are not wearing the same thing. The problem is the perception of the teams that the umpire who is NOT wearing the bright, shiny uniform must not be a good umpire.
Gotcha, but I believe the OP had to do more with the belt, not the shoes (though someone brought them up, and it's good for the discussion). Regardless, my answer remains the same: until ASA gives the nod to wear it, I don't wear it. Which actually reminds me of something else, but I'll bring that up in another thread.

AtlUmpSteve Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCASAUmp
Because to ASA, "uniform" is not only a noun, it's an adjective. :)

It's a preference issue, really. ASA doesn't want it, so I don't wear it. Could it spruce up an otherwise ugly uniform? Sure, but until ASA says it's okay...

We're at where we're at.
I didn't say just ASA; I said at higher levels of softball.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCAA Umpire Manual
The first step to being an umpire is looking like an umpire. Understanding the effect appearance has is vital. Appearance is probably more important in umpiring than in other things because in umpiring, at least most of the time, no one ever gets to know you as a person. They have little other criteria from which to make a judgment.

There is a saying in umpiring that you can never make a second, first impression.

If the first impression you give people is sloppy, disheveled or overly casual they will assume these character traits for you. That will then determine the degree of respect they afford you later on if they need to approach you.

On the other hand, if you look neat, clean and sharp, they will assume that this is how you will approach your umpiring and their approach to you will be more respectful.

It is important that you not only have the correct uniform but also that you wear it properly. Your uniform is the only thing in umpiring that you can always get 100 percent right. But you cannot get more than 100 percent. Uniform means alike, the same.

If you do something differently with your uniform–wear a patent leather belt or shoes, press your shirt differently–then you are no longer uniform, and instead of the 110 percent you hoped to achieve, you are now down to about 75 percent. The only reason most umpires to do something differently with their uniform is to draw attention to themselves–something umpires should never do.

Get your uniform to 100 percent. Clean and polished shoes, clean and unwrinkled shirt, clean and pressed pants, clean and blocked hat, and clean, uncracked and polished belt are the requisites of a uniform at 100 percent. Maintain it there. Then devote your energies to getting your umpiring as close to 100 percent as you can. A fine first impression means little if there is nothing of substance to back it up. Make a first impression last.
Okay, you think it looks better. You think it is easier to clean. We get that.

But, it isn't uniform, it isn't the same, it isn't what a top level softball umpire is supposed to wear. Not in ASA, not in NCAA, not in ISF. Don't know for a fact, but I am willing to bet it isn't approved for NPF, either. So far as I know, that pretty covers "top level" softball.

Blu_IN Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:02am
Pretty sure
 
Irish,

I am pretty sure they already don't expect the base umpire to be wearing patent leather plate shoes in order to match the plate umpire.

You say that this brings attention to the umpire whom isn't wearing patent leather by coaches and players. I would guess more often than not, the coaches and the players have no idea what the umpires are or are not wearing.

Most coaches have a hard enough time getting simple rules straight in their own minds, let alone sit there and discuss with their assistant the difference between belt styles worn by the base and plate umpire or that the base umpire really should be wearing patent leather base shoes if the plate umpire is wearing patent leather plate shoes.


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