Bad coach, good coach
 

I had a game this week end that had two very interesting game changing plays.

Team A batting, bases loaded one out. Batter fouls a few balls then gets one ball, fouls a few more then gets another ball. Catcher asks me for the count. Loudly and for all to see I show the count as "2 balls and 2 strikes" The very next pitch is a ball, the batter trots down to first all other runners start to trot to the next base. Team B coach is yelling to the pitcher to tag the runner coming home. The pitcher tags the runner, I call an out. The other runners return, chaos ensues. the offensive (Team A) coach GOES NUTS yelling, "That was ball four!" Calmly I tell him no it was ball three, runner out, the batter needs come back and finish their at bat. He asks me to ask my partner, partner also same count as me. Out stands lets play. After a lengthy (and heated on his part) discussion with the coach the play stands. Coach tells his players that they need to play harder as the umpire is stealing the game from them. The next pitch is a strike (swinging) inning over.

Same game bases loaded one out. Team B at bat. Battery hits a ball right back to the pitch (the bat broke clean in two -- had no bearing on the play but was kind of cool). Quick throw to the plate for an out, catcher takes two steps to throw the ball to first, retired runner slides into catcher feet, throw goes askew. I rule Dead ball interference by a retired runner, runner closest to home is out. End of the inning. Team B coach asks me was the slide legal, I told him it was because if it was not his player would have been ejected. He understands and HE tells his players that was a good call, lets play.

Two plays, two different coaching styles. One coach blamed the umpire crew for every misfortune, the other thanked the umpires for every opportunity. One coach encouraged his players and fans to degrade the umpires, and the other absolutely forbid it.

... and replacing the coach as well, since this one is now on his way to the parking lot.

Did you warn/eject A coach after "Coach tells his players that they need to play harder as the umpire is stealing the game from them"?

Can't the slide be illegal without being flagrant enough for ejection?

Yep, me and you think alike.. that coach would have been gone for that. No doubt.

My weekly (it seems :mad: ) ejection .. "you need to read the rule book" after an easy INT call..

Dont tolerate comments like that.. and making them to the players, there is no way that coach would have gotten even a warning.

"After a lengthy (and heated on his part) discussion with the coach the play stands."

Should NEVER happen. A VERY BRIEF explanation, and, "That's enough coach. Let's play ball. If he persists, sayonara.

"Coach tells his players that they need to play harder as the umpire is stealing the game from them. The next pitch is a strike (swinging) inning over."

Coach is not around long enough to see the next pitch. Accusing me of cheating is an automatic trip to the parking lot, or further if necessary.

"Battery hits a ball right back to the pitch..."

'Battery' is a term used to denote the pitcher and catcher.

"Quick throw to the plate for an out, catcher takes two steps to throw the ball to first, retired runner slides into catcher feet, throw goes askew. I rule Dead ball interference by a retired runner, runner closest to home is out. End of the inning. Team B coach asks me was the slide legal, I told him it was because if it was not his player would have been ejected."

BAD call. If the slide was legal, there is no justification for calling interference.

Bob

This was my first thought also...but go back and re-read the scenario...(bold emphasis is mine)

This tells me that the catcher has moved away from the plate after retiring the runner from third. If the runner is sliding into the catcher, she is not attempting to slide at the plate, but is trying to disrupt the catcher's throw.

Sounds like the right call to me.

Re-read the statement that it was deemed a 'legal slide". A LEGAL slide is a LEGAL slide is a LEGAL slide. PERIOD.

Bob

Can someone define a legal slide with citations, please?

NFHS 2-52-1 and 2. Also U-trip 4-37 & 38.

Also, PONY 1-57.

B. What about when the fielder is not in a "standing position"?

I don't understand how a legal slide can ever be interference. You didn't say whose rules you were playing under, but even if it was one of those organizations that DOES define legal and illegal slide (ASA does not), a legal slide is always legal contact. A "take-out" slide is not illegal merely because it was a take-out slide. It has to violate the premise of a legal slide. You may not have considered the slide egreggious enough for the player to be ejected, but it seems to me you did have to consider it illegal to call interference. What was the basis of your interference call?

I've always understood that to be defining the height of the sliding player's feet, not the position of the fielder at the time.

Gotcha! ...........................

This was ASA. I used Rule 8.7.J.3, interference with the thrown ball to break up the double play. There was clearly interference on the play, just not malicious interference. The offensive coach immediate concern was about if his player would be ejected for malicious contact. The defense coach (who was a butt for the whole game) was only concern was about his catcher (who was briefly shaken up) and did not pursue a malicious contact call.

LOL

1. Not speaking for Bob, but I think he was likely doing ASA. NFHS has been over since May.

2. I darn near tossed a girl for a slide on Sunday during our Seattle Tacoma Championships (ASA). The feet of the girl sliding were no more than six inches above the ground if that. There was a force at the plate and the runner was out, literally, by well over six feet. (No I did not have a measuring tape or anything else.) She slid into the catcher's feet/ankles and the catcher went a$$ over teakettle. It required a snap judgement...and I made a snap judgement she didn't interfere...but it was damn close. I don't know that (in ASA) a slide at the knees would be any worse than a slide at the ankles or the feet or anywhere else.

As I've said before, I have worked with Bob on several occasions. Bob and I have seen each other at our best and not at our best. But in the OP, I will support his judgement all the way.

OK. Now I have to go take a shower with my Pomeranian, then go do Extremely Rec Co-ed. Last one of these I did, I ejected a pitcher.

Couple of questions, please?

That sounded like a liner right back to F1, but since there was a play made at home AND attempted at 1B, I assume the hit was a grounder to F1?

What kind of bat was it? Wood I would expect, but do metal softball bats break in two like wood ones?

If the runner had slid normally into home plate and had no opportunity to alter her slide in order to prevent a collision with F2 (bang-bang play), would it still have been interference? Did the fact that F2 took "2 steps" imply that either there was time enough to take 2 steps so there was time enough for the runner to alter her slide (therfore it was INT) or does the fact that F2 took 2 steps indicate that she was away from home plate and therefore if the runner slid into her it suggests she deliberately altered her slide in order to interfere with F2, therefore INT?

Thanks.

He did confirm ASA, but I'd point out the same rule exists in U-trip and PONY, both of which, I imagine, are still underway.

The bat that broke was indeed some kind of metal bat. Before the game I had checked the bats on the other side while my partner check this side. He is very good, so I know the bat was legal and not altered.

Well, it most certainly is altered now! ;)

A while back, I heard about a game at one of the local parks where I umpire where a bat broke open. When it did, sheets of sandpaper came out of the end. Umpires did nothing.

*shakes his head*

And at what point did I say U-trip and PONY weren't underway?

What I understood you to say was that he was most likely ASA since NFHS was over. I was only pointing out that just because NFHS was over did not mean he was not using a rule book that contained the cited definition of a legal and illegal slide. Not a big deal.