Pony Rules Softball
 

Received an email with this situation, what do you all think?

Runner at first no outs. Hard liner at first baseman runner has taken lead, ball deflects off of glove and hops to runner who instinctively catches is and quickly drops ball to ground. Any help appreciated.

I got DB, no pitch, B1 out for leaving early.

ASA anyway...

How do you know R1 left early?

I don't think R1 left early. Just took normal lead with pitch.

I don't know Pony. But, I need more information on the play. Did R1 have time to avoid the ball? Did F4 have a play on the ball to either tag R1 or retire the BR?

Even with this additional information, though, the catch presents a problem, but was it a "defensive" catch (that is, avoid getting hit) or did she "field" the ball?

sorry bout that, the way it was written I thought the runner was taking a baseball lead.

I agree with dakota, not enough details to rule..

For all I know, the F3 picked up the ball, swipe tagged the runner then tagged 1B for the double play, in which case, I got me two outs on the play.

People , the situation is as it stands .
Thats what happened , so , what do you do .
Dead ball .
If another fielder had a chance to make a play then interference , if not return runner to 1st base .

1) Oh come on, even your answer has a variable. You cant say "take the scenario as its written" and then answer:
"well its either ____ or its ___".

This scenario lacks and is poorly written.

2) I dont agree a deflected ball that hits a runner is an immediate DB.

You have to delay that call (even if for only a split second) and determine if there is INT.

The primary criteria with INT is that there is Interference.

A deflected ball which hits a runner is not an immediate dead ball. Interference and DB when the runner interferes with a fielder who has a chance to make an out from a deflected ball.

I have another question rereading your answer, under what circumstance would you put the runner back?

Lets think That scenario happens on a softball diamond , what do YOU do .
This play was put to me at a ISF seminar last year and Merle Butler stated just that .
I didint ask the reasoning cos at an ISF seminar you dont , you just accept it .
By the way the scenario was runner catches the ball not was hit by the ball .
I actually agrre with your statement BUT this runner actually caught the ball that is intentionally caught the ball .

OK, so I dont know ISF rules.. to me, we have DB and INT or we dont. If you rule DB INT you get the Runner and maybe the batter. I dont see where you would put the runner back... which I guess means either A) do-over b) batter called out.

My thoughts exactly .
But like I said you dont argue with Merle Butler at an ISF seminar .
But in saying that it is logical , but not nessecarily , within the rules that you kill the ball .
Then you put the runner back to the last base legally touched .
Offense happy that there wasnt two outs and defense happy that the runner didnt advance .
I didnt make it clear of course that the BR would be out .

Well, unless ISF is remarkably different in this area, I think you are representing that guy as dead wrong when he is not here to defend himself. Tell him to sign on :D , if he thinks that garbage, I'll argue with him.

Wadeintothem
You still havnt answered the scenario as its written .

Sure I did, in post 11. Whether there is FOR SURE INT on this deflected ball or not cant be answered. In a game, i would probably lean towards INT and a nice little out for me.

Well if I am the coach .
"What is it Blue ,out, do over or what , make a decision "

Well I'd have to either have more details or see it to make a decision.. I dont need more details to know you and/or merle are full of crap if you try to tell me the batter in this situation is out by pseudo catch or some such.

BLUE WHATS YOUR CALL
We havnt got ten cameras for a replay,, the play is as described thats all you saw

Why? Did I pass out before I could see if there was interference?

So you have interference ?

I will bite. I have 2 outs. The runner was only a few feet off 1B on a hard hit ball. Seems like it the runner didn't catch the ball, there was a good chance for a double play.

While two Umps have different views on this situation , both may be right .
It is a judgement call as to interefence or not .
If have two outs you will get spewed over by 1 team .
If you have no outs and play on , you will get spewed over by the other team .
If you have dead ball runner out and BR safe both teams will accept ( maybe )
If you have dead ball BR out and place R back on first you are wrong ( no rule sets dictate this ) but probably both teams will accept it .
The point here is if you are confident with your rules and can back that up by a sound explanation and it is a judgement call you are right .

What you have is a dead ball and an out on the R1. BR is awarded 1b and scored as a hit.

Outathm
PONY SB UIC

So Outham you obviously have INT .
The runner stopped a play by a fielder did they ?
If the runner hadnt caught the ball it would have flew out to centrefield who had no chance to make an out , so where is the INT ?

The following situation doesnt apply at all to an INT call, but it does illustrate how things "happen" on the field which may not necessarily be INT even if it was a runner and a batted deflected ball:

I'm hooked in for a play at 2B, about 6 feet in on 2B. HARD Throw from outfield deflects off of tip of F6's glove and hits me square in on the right cheek of my face. Luckily all my teeth stayed in my head because I got popped good. I wasnt quick enough to defend myself on that play and took the shot in my face.

The point is, a deflected ball coming at a runner may result in a defensive action which may or may not be interference. You still must judge intent on a deflection here. Was there intentional interference or was she just acting in a defensive manner?

In either case, maybe it's INT, maybe not. Because of the way it is worded, I would say I lean heavily towards INT on this play.. it sounds bone headed of the runner to catch a ball that "pops" to her "instinctively" and then drops to the ground.

A deflected batted ball is not the same as a batted ball which hasnt passed infielders.

Would you guys be calling the play differently if it was worded:

----------------------------

1. Runner at first no outs. Hard liner at first baseman runner has taken lead, ball deflects off of glove and smashes the runner in the face.

2. Runner at first no outs. Hard liner at first baseman runner has taken lead, ball deflects off of glove; the runner raises her hand preventing the ball from hitting her, the ball hits her hand and drops to the ground.

Not that we care, but, when a runner is out on interference, BR is credited with a fielder's choice, not a hit. ASA 11.3-D

Let's look at the OP again, shall we?

Where in this sitch does it imply that the ball would have flown to centrefield? Not that I'm saying that any other fielder would have had a chance at an out, but nothing in the OP supports your hypothesis about what would have happened had the runner not caught the ball.

HARD LINER to me is a very hard hit ball if not touched would go to outfield .
Soft liner would not