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-   -   Dirty trick, but illegal? (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/34360-dirty-trick-but-illegal.html)

Four Seam Tue May 08, 2007 03:55am

Dirty trick, but illegal?
 
ASA or NFHS rule set, tournament play. While in position as third base coach, I found that whenever we had a runner on first base, the big first baseman would move to a position between me and my base runner so she could not see my signs. As I moved closer or farther from home plate to get a better angle and my base runner stretched to see me as far as she could and still keep a foot on the bag, the first baseman would move accordingly, obviously to keep blocking the view. This delayed the game because my batter would not get set to receive a pitch while I was trying to give signs. In the actual game, I settled for letting our first base coach relay the signs to the base runners, even though this was a disadvantage. Question is, in this situation, if coach had asked for time and complained about this practice, would you as umpire have taken any action, possibly under UC or delay of game rules? Thanks for replies.

CecilOne Tue May 08, 2007 06:27am

Not illegal, try to avoid involvement of possible.
If repeated and I believed it, I might ask the defense coach to have F3 stand still so the runner can see the offense coach, then observe what happens.
If continues and appearing deliberate to me, I might point out to the defense coach that good sportsmanship is important and expected.
Then, ...

Bandit Tue May 08, 2007 06:59am

Old School
 
Fix it the next time the first base person comes up to bat.

Skahtboi Tue May 08, 2007 07:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit
Fix it the next time the first base person comes up to bat.

I sure hope you aren't advocating what I think you are. You would hit a kid who has probably been coached to do this? That makes you much more wrong than she is.

As far as the OP goes, I have nothing to do with coaching or "anti-coaching." Therefore, all you will get from me if you complain is, well, nothing.

IRISHMAFIA Tue May 08, 2007 08:45am

Try using a first base coach to coach the runner on first base.

Az.Ump Tue May 08, 2007 12:45pm

Why would you want to give up the advantage of being able to move F3 at will? ;)

Paul

tcannizzo Tue May 08, 2007 04:13pm

I have seen a drastic increase in our area within the past 6 months of coaches calling out numbers: 7-4-8, 6-2-1, etc.

Four Seam Tue May 08, 2007 04:18pm

After the sign has been given
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Az.Ump
Why would you want to give up the advantage of being able to move F3 at will? ;)

Paul

The defensive coach will always be free to move F3 after the sign has been given...the question is about delaying the game while F3 plays games with the coach at third base by blocking the view.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Tue May 08, 2007 05:35pm

As someone who umpires both baseball and fastpitch softball, and more importlantly, the father of two sons who play first base. I can see nothing wrong with the first baseman is doing. It is neither unsportsmanlike nor is it illegal. It is not the umpires' problem.

MTD, Sr.

IRISHMAFIA Tue May 08, 2007 06:30pm

Next thing you know the coaches will want the umpire to make F3 position themselves somewhere else besides the baseline!

wadeintothem Tue May 08, 2007 08:09pm

There are YP's and MP's.. (Your Problem and My Problem)

This is a YP.

pob14 Wed May 09, 2007 01:57pm

Oops, never mind.

bkbjones Wed May 09, 2007 10:14pm

To heck wit 'em. It's ain't my job to position defenders. I'll tell a base coach to get his butt back in the box if he's standing in the way...but a player, never. Not my problem. Never. Ever.

bluezebra Fri May 11, 2007 12:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Four Seam
ASA or NFHS rule set, tournament play. While in position as third base coach, I found that whenever we had a runner on first base, the big first baseman would move to a position between me and my base runner so she could not see my signs. As I moved closer or farther from home plate to get a better angle and my base runner stretched to see me as far as she could and still keep a foot on the bag, the first baseman would move accordingly, obviously to keep blocking the view. This delayed the game because my batter would not get set to receive a pitch while I was trying to give signs. In the actual game, I settled for letting our first base coach relay the signs to the base runners, even though this was a disadvantage. Question is, in this situation, if coach had asked for time and complained about this practice, would you as umpire have taken any action, possibly under UC or delay of game rules? Thanks for replies.

Question is, in this situation, if coach had asked for time and complained about this practice, would you as umpire have taken any action, possibly under UC or delay of game rules? Thanks for replies.

Yes. On your batter for not getting set in the batter's box. You're welcome.

Bob

Stripe Sat Aug 04, 2007 08:04am

If F3 was not moving to position himself for a play but was deliberately trying to obstruct the view of the runner, yes I would take action under rule 9.01 c & d.

(c) Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.
(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further action is possible in that play.


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