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-   -   Dirty trick, but illegal? (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/34360-dirty-trick-but-illegal.html)

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe
If F3 was not moving to position himself for a play but was deliberately trying to obstruct the view of the runner, yes I would take action under rule 9.01 c & d.

(c) Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.
(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further action is possible in that play.

Since I do not have my ASA Fastpitch Rules Book in front of me but do have my NFHS Fastpitch Softball Rules in front of me I will confine my comments to NFHS Rules.


Stripe:

Please tell me you are joking. First, we are discussing NFHS fastpitch softball rules, not OBR rules; wrong sport. Second, even if we were discussing NFHS fastpitch softball rules, NFHS R10-S2-A3g does not apply. The first baseman can position herself anywhere she wants in fair territory. The offense is going to get over it. Please read my earlier post in this thread.

MTD, Sr.

IRISHMAFIA Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe
If F3 was not moving to position himself for a play but was deliberately trying to obstruct the view of the runner, yes I would take action under rule 9.01 c & d.

(c) Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.
(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further action is possible in that play.
Don't know to which rules set you are referring, but IMHO, your reaction is that which can only be described as over-officious. Other than the catcher and pitcher, there is NO rule which permits an umpire to tell any other fielder where to stand as long as it is in fair territory.

UmpLarryJohnson Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:05am
i think bandit has the right answer!!

Mountaineer Sat Aug 04, 2007 09:08pm
As much as I'd like to do something - I agree with everyone on the fact that I can't. It's something you have to handle. Do you have a problem with stealing signals too? Signaling pitch locations from base runners? Where do you draw the line in the area of what may or may not be deemed unsportsmanship? Unfortunately, I don't feel this falls in that area - as Wade said - it's a YP.

bluezebra Sun Aug 05, 2007 01:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe
If F3 was not moving to position himself for a play but was deliberately trying to obstruct the view of the runner, yes I would take action under rule 9.01 c & d.

(c) Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.
(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further action is possible in that play.
That's a cop-out. Those rules are NOT written to allow an umpire to penalize a player for doing something WELL within the rules. There is NOTHING unsportsmanlike about F3 moving, as long as it doesn't become obstruction.

If you EVER invoke 9.01 c & d in situations like this, I hope the coach/manager has the brains to protest. And to write a complaining letter to the league, and your assignor. It's not an umpire's job to assist a team that hasn't a clue on how to relay signals.

Bob

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sun Aug 05, 2007 06:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer
As much as I'd like to do something - I agree with everyone on the fact that I can't. It's something you have to handle. Do you have a problem with stealing signals too? Signaling pitch locations from base runners? Where do you draw the line in the area of what may or may not be deemed unsportsmanship? Unfortunately, I don't feel this falls in that area - as Wade said - it's a YP.

Mountaineer:

I and my two sons (ages 14 and 17), both of whom are baseball players, disagree with you most vigorously. Stealing signs is not unsportsmanlike conduct. It is just part of the game. They both agree that the catcher is not doing his/her job if he/she allows a base runner to steal the pitch signs. Stealing signs is not unsportsmanlike conduct. It is just part of the game. It is equally not unsportsmanlike if the defense can decipher the base coaches’ signals to the batter and base runners. It is just part of the game.

MTD, Sr.

Mountaineer Sun Aug 05, 2007 07:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Mountaineer:

I and my two sons (ages 14 and 17), both of whom are baseball players, disagree with you most vigorously. Stealing signs is not unsportsmanlike conduct. It is just part of the game. They both agree that the catcher is not doing his/her job if he/she allows a base runner to steal the pitch signs. Stealing signs is not unsportsmanlike conduct. It is just part of the game. It is equally not unsportsmanlike if the defense can decipher the base coaches’ signals to the batter and base runners. It is just part of the game.

MTD, Sr.
Either I didn't make my position clear or you misunderstood - I don't think it's unsporting either.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer
Either I didn't make my position clear or you misunderstood - I don't think it's unsporting either.

Mountaineer:

Me sorry. I guess I am getting senile in my old age.

MTD, Sr.


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