Slow Pitch Umps
 

I have been encouraged by my NFHS/ASA assignor to help out on the slowpitch side of things this year. SO I have some slowpitch questions. I have looked in the book but my research skills seem to be lacking. So you SP umps have some patience with me and HELP.......please

Illegal Pitch= too high, too low, hits ground before home plate, hits home plate........is my thinking correct on these ?

IP on too high or too low.

Dead ball and ball on the batter if pitch hits the plate or anywhere on the ground before passing home plate. Also batter can not swing at any pitch that has hit the plate or the ground.

Good luck.

Good luck. Its a great game..... sometimes its even ok at the beer league level. Just like FP learn the nuances from your senior people...the ASA manual has a pretty good umpire section also.

I worked a league back in CNY that had a league rule
that a ball hitting the plate was a strike !!!
Talk about taking the bat out the the hitter's hands !
There also was a women's league that used a mat---
horrible games when you had a pitcher that couldn't lob
the ball onto it. I felt like asking batters why they bothered
brinig a bat with them !
WALK-WALK- WALK- WALK-.............
(groan)

The introduction of the mat and a strike for hitting the plate was the final dumbing down of the game.
I umpired SP for many years, and endured many dense players but even they dont' like the mat.

With the mat, the game becomes a joke all together.

What he said..I cringe when I volunteer to work a league with the mat.... dumbest rule ever.

The only time they use a mat around here is if there isn't an umpire. Fall co-ed is the only league that uses them because they aren't willing to pay to have a live body behind the catcher.

And then the catcher and batter end up arguing over whether the ball hit the mat or not :D

Edited to correct spelling

The standard
 

Well around here the mat definetly seems to be the norm. We also don't have much high end SB.
Some of the SB umps said there is not as much complaining about strikes now......they just complain about arc.......

Mat
 

I believe the Mat was endorsed to help out with lower end SP, when it comes to A Grade the Mat is used very little. I think the big Advertsing Tournament that is run annually in Palm Springs uses it, but that is the only big Tournament to use such a concept. It is also used a lot in Canada so I am led to believe. We in the UK have never, and God willing, will never resort to such a rubbish idea.
The Strike Zone belongs to the Umpire, and as such, You can make the batters swing, it is amazing how big the Strike Zone is, when you want it to be.... Slowpitch is a Batting Game

More questions
 

So let me make sure I have this correct .

1. Illegal Pitch means the pitch was too low or too high ?
2. I signal DDB. Batters doesn't swing. Ball on batter . runners advance 1 base. Correct ?

3. Batter swings -play on - Correct ?


4. Ball hits ground=dead ball, do you signal dead ball like in FP ?

1. yes, those are 2 examples of IP
2. Wrong, runners dont advance on high/low illegal pitches
3. Yes, play on
4. Yes

1. yes, those are 2 examples of IP
2. Wrong, runners dont advance on high/low illegal pitches, and calling out "illegal pitch" is enough (lets batter know)
3. Yes, play on
4. Yes

Will the games be played with stealing?

no stealing
 

I don't believe there is stealing allowed. This are pretty much middle to high beer leagues.......

With an addition to signaling DB, I also say loud enough for the batter and catcher to hear me, "illegal". The pitcher doesn't need to hear me as they should be able to see the signal but if they ask (nicely), I'll tell them what the problem was with the pitch.

Unless there is stealing signaling dead ball is a waste of effort. Nothing in slow pitch can happen until the batter swings.

It might be wasted effort, but it is a required mechanic that will save you some grief at some point when the whiner,,,,,I mean pitcher, says, "but you didn't signal illegal, you can't claim it after the pitch got there,"

CYA, make the signal too

I'm sure you meant "DDB"

I meant to say Dead Ball and that's what I thought I said. :confused:

I thought you meant DDB also.
Why would you say DB instead of DDB? or have I been removed to some alternate universe where it is now a DB:D

What the heck does DDB stand for? Dead Ball is 2 words and those words start with a "D" and a "B" hence DB for Dead Ball. Where is the second "D" coming from?:confused:

Delayed Dead Ball

DB=Dead ball. Signal=both hands raised with palms toward the front.

DDB=Delayed dead ball. Signal=left arm extended to the side.


When you said:

you really should have been signalling a DDB.

They're originally from Chicago. It means da dead ball... DDB. :)

An illegal pitch is a delayed dead ball.

I was actually thinking back to my days of living in Louisiana with the Cajun influence so I guess I should have said, DDDB.

"Dat dere dead ball":D

Now I know and I apologize for not knowing the correct internet acronym. I really meant to say "delayed dead ball" and now I know it's DDB and I won't forget. :)

The question referred to a dead ball, i.e hitting the ground before the plate,,,,This is not an illegal pitch or a delayed dead ball and requires no signal, verbal or visual, unless there is stealing.

On an illegal pitch the umpire can declare it at anytime the umpire determines it is illegal,,,even if this means when it has become dead by being caught by the catcher.

Everyone on the field can whine ....but it changes nothing.

Well, actually :rolleyes: the OP offered the possibility the ball hitting the ground in front of the plate as an IP. The first response separated the IP from dead ball. However, the recent responses were to Tom who stated he gives a DB signal on an IP. We were just seeking clarification to avoid confusion for any non-veteran umpire.

However, there is a prescribe mechanic for a ball hitting the plate or ground in front of the plate or the batter which is described on page 225 of umpire manual section of the 2007 ASA Umpire Edition of the rules book.

It is a good mechanic to use for all SP games whether stealing is being allowed or not. For years, umpires have been pointing to the plate, pounding their fists or making some other type of silly looking signal to indicate to the pitcher that the ball hit the plate. ASA has now provided a standard mechanic for this occurence and I see no reason why it should not be utilized when applicable.

Unless a pitched ball is illegal for another reason one that simply fails to get over the plate is a ball and is dead, unless there is stealing.

Page 225 refers to games with stealing and the prescribed mechanic has no meaning in games where there is no stealing, i.e almost all slow pitch softball games.

The umpire is under no obligation to explain, visually or verbally, why a ball is a ball,,,,,but the universal pounding of the fists is clear to all players,including the "umpires" at shortstop and in the outfield, that the ball did not cross the plate.

Whoever invented it should get royalties.

I guess I don't see in the mechanics where "pounding the fists" is a prescribed mechanic... especially a "universal" one. Can you explain how that's done, or where in the umpire manual that it talks about that?

:rolleyes:

Excuse me for being a smart ***, but no ****! There had to be something put in place to accommodate the players and BU in the situation prescribed. That doesn't mean you just ignore it's value.

Actually, the indication is that the ball hit the plate. Many lazy or intimated umpires point to the ground and say "short" when the ball hits in front of the plate.

Nonetheless, since you are on page 225 of the umpire manual, maybe you should check paragraph 11 on the opposite page.

It is not in the manual.

It is simply a mechanic of experience that serves a purpose.

"There had to be something put in place to accommodate the players and BU in the situation prescribed"

Sure, for games in which there is stealing. But since most games do not have stealing the mechanic is useless.

I never use a hand signal to describe the location of a pitch. I do use the fist hit to let everyone know the ball hit the plate.

If that is not your style, so be it. It is, after all, my game when I am behind the plate, and yours when you are there.

bull****...


The jackass that invented that lazy, half-assed mechanic should be shot along with the moron who invented closed fist pounding for a full count....

If you dont like it, don't use it.

I think it is the greatest and most useful signal ever invented. And there is no doubt in anyone's mind, even in co-ed or church league as to what it means.

My Two Cents
 

1. Pounding the fists is sloppy, good-ol'- boy, and lazy-looking, is not an official mechanic, and does a disservice to those of us who strictly follow ASA mechanics while working ASA slow pitch games. There are people in my association who do this - they are, I'll be so bold as to say the EXACT same group of umpires who also never drop to the set position while calling pitches, point to 1B on most walks, and button hook in about 1/5 of the time when out on the bases. Odd how they are not the ones who are invited to work the state, regional, or national tournaments.
2. To be fair, the table on p. 187 of the 2007 Umpire Manual does say "slow pitch with stealing," when referring to the new mechanic. So it could be said that the book says to do it both ways.
3. If my UIC mandated what Mike is suggesting for games without stealing, I wouldn't mind, but that's not how it is as of this moment. I don't currently do or say anything other than "ball" when an otherwise legal, pitched ball hits the plate.

You are correct. They should get royalties. Here is a quarter so he can go call all the other lazy ******* who use this mechanic.

The other thing that gripes me about it is when I hear this from players: "Why don't you give that signal like the other umpires do?"

Umpires that use unapproved mechanics, just like those who work a game in half a uniform, no uniform or a sloppy uniform, do a disservice to every other umpire, no matter if they wear a blue, red, white, gray, green, black or some other color shirt.

Why do some point to first? Do THAT many batters still not know the way to first base? Why do we hit our fist with our palm or palm with our fist on a ball that hits the plate? Would we use that signal on an uncaught foul ball when it strikes the ground beyond a base? why not? People use it all the time to signal a dead ball.

Just as it is either a ball or a strike, it is either live or dead. If I point at the ground, you can bet your a$$ it's a fair ball. Bull$hit mechanics bring all of us down, whether it is half-baked buttonhooks, mirroring your partner on foul ball calls (or even worse, the ball/strike count) and crappy mechanics.

More after supper...I just got home from a slow pitch double header. I pointed toward fair territory four times during the games - to signify foul balls. I did not hit my fist with my palm. I survived.

God forbid we should ever use a non-prescribed book mechanic that actually helped a player understand the game.

Why should we point to first base when a 35 year old office manager walks in her first game ever?

Or hit our fists to let a 60 year old minister know his pitch was a ball because it hit the plate?

Well, without the players enjoying the game, we have no job.

We owe everyone hustle, a knowledge of the rules, and the mechanics that puts us in position to see the play.

How we signal a strike or a sellout defines us and cannot ever be copied from a book written by a committee.

So, pardon me, if I use my individuality to make calls and to use signals the players can understand and learn from.

I am not changing after 35 years to become a clone.

No, please..DONT change..that makes it easy for us to identify who you are..... enjoy your church league.....

John, you pointed to fair territory 4 times to signal foul balls???????????? Hmmm, Dave

You're right, we're wrong.

Isn't that amazing, all the games I've worked and I just found out I'm supposed to look like a clone!

If you had any experience at the upper levels, you would see that all those who do it right, all do it a little bit differently. None of us look the same on the field, yet we all subscribed to the prescribed mechanics.

Just continue doing what you do. It actually makes the guys who do it right look that much better. And for that, thank you.

Are you serious?? Of all the signals we use, this is the greatest and most useful??? Wow!

Mike,

The only right way is to hustle and know the rules. After that game management is determined by the umpire and the players in the game. A hand signal that helps them understand is hardly a tool that should be held against an umpire. The double fist is appropraite at some levels and not needed in others.

I simply thank whoever invented it becauase it has been a useful tool over the years in letting all the players in the field know what happened.

How ironic that after 30 yrs of pitching- maybe 1000 Sp games played, and 10 years of umping SP and varsity baseball, I have never seen or heard of that "mechanic".....

Well, you are not going to see it in baseball, but if you never saw it in 1000 SP games, you must have been blessed with well-trained umpires.:eek:

Yeah, I know, what's this world coming to!!!

I have a question: Why is it necessary, or even good, for the umpire to make sure that all the players know the reason for a pitch being called a BALL?

Ball - Mechanic
 

It is my believe, (and I read part of it somewhere in this thread) that the 'fists together' is only done at lower end slowpitch, and it is normally only done when that 12" or 11" sucker hits the ground and edge of plate simultaneously, thus still causing a bounce. If it is straight edge of plate then it slides or spins to the ground. Certainly in ISF and I believe in ASA this is not the norm for the umpire to assist the pitcher, but it is infact the catchers duty to inform the pitcher. We do not have signs for inside / outside, so why a ball on plate. Let the catcher at least do something in slowpitch than just throwing it back to the pitcher after every ball! Well, okay, they also cover 1st after a hit!!! The point is that you will never see it for obviuos reasons in fast or baseball ... And if that young man has never seen the signal after 1000 games pitching and umpiring then all I can say is WOW ...:) :)

I guess to me, the "hitting the plate" mechanic being described is pretty pointless. It is a case where the umpire, usually unsure of himself, feels the need to tell everyone where the pitch was, like verbally calling "inside" or "low" or "high" or "outside." One of my favorites I heard one of these directions givers use was "at the knees," but we won't go into the problems inherent with that. I don't see why the umpire just doesn't call "off the plate," or something of that nature, rather than using the "fist indicator." :D

Calls
 

Better still - 'Don't Call Nothing'
Okay end of this thread for me . it's too long:rolleyes:

That is not limited to slow pitch umpires. And, I agree, that it seems to me to indicate a lack of confidence - trying to forestall the griping and such. The most I do in this regard is the slight "look" or head movement in the direction of where the pitch missed (but, I'm talking FP, not SP).

If the catcher asks, I'll answer. If the coach asks I'll sometimes answer; sometimes I'll tell the catcher what to tell the coach.

Gosh, what would you have done with the background investigation thread! :eek:

Want to find out????? :D

I'm still confused.

If the ball is hit and fouls back to the fence, do you do your little fist pumping action for that dead ball?

Or if there's an interference call from the runner who crashed into F4 about to receive the batted ball - fist pump? Maybe a double fist pump since two people collided?

What about when Sheri the Office Manager fouls one into her right foot? Is that a "fist-to-foot pump" mechanic? Does it change if it's her left foot?

No of course you don't do those mechanics. Why? Because they're not prescribed mechanics.

So why the hell do you "fist pump" when it hits the plate?

A ball that hits the plate is dead. Period. Give the Dead Ball signal (stealing or not), then call the ball. The If the players ask you why it's a dead ball, tell them why. But don't be using lazy-assed, sandlot mechanics.

PS: is your last name Gilman?

Unless there is stealing, the result of any legal pitch that is not swung at is a dead bal in slow pitch. Why would you use a dead ball signal for a pitch that hit the plate? If you use it to let everyone know that the reason the pitch is a ball is beause it hit the plate, how is that any differnt than a double fist?

Why in the world you jump on umpires who use the double fist is beyond me.

If you don't like the mechanic, dont use it.

Don't worry, we won't.

Okay. I'll take a crack.

(But somehow I doubt that you're going to listen to me any more than you've listened to anyone else here.)

Because this is not an approved signal as desribed in any umpire manual that I am aware of.

I don't know what your situation is, as far as local associations, evaluations or game assignments are concerned. For me, if I am being evaluated and use non-standard signals I can count on being dinged by the evaluator. This can stifle advancement and lead to fewer game assignments.

If you start using non-approved signals, where do you draw the line? Should umpires have their own set of signals to use however they see fit?

Here's a line from the ASA umpire manual:

"The adopted signals are dignified, informative, meaningful, and therefore, shall be used by all umpires. Poorly executed and unauthorized signals serve only to confuse."

Since these are the guidelines I'm evaluated under, I do not use non-standard signals.

I have neer been dinged by any evaluator, or anyone, for using the double fist to signify the ball hitting the plate.

I have stayed out of this a bit just to let the other voices of experience (and those who give a sh** about doing things right) BUT...................

If you want to use a weird mechanic and thus "teach" the teams you work with that doing things half_a$$ is what you are all about, then fine.
Have fun.
If you want to do things right, help the teams have a good game without conflict, and be able to understand the umpires they do have that are good.

THEN DO IT RIGHT.:mad:

I worked for years to learn all that I could about proper mechanics and still keep learning as the requirements change. I take pride in myself and my fellow blues.
I expect the game to be done correctly by me and my partners.
But then again, I have had higher aspirations as to game assignments.
I wanted to become a ASA Gold umpire at first,
Then I wanted to be a member of the National Indicator Fraternity
Then I wanted to become as ASA ELITE,
Then I wanted my ISF.

I achieved my goals.
Working around 35 - 38 Nationals over the years.
I have enjoyed the time with many great memories.

One thing I have found at every National I have ever worked,
Team complaints about the "umpire back home" who did this or that etc that had nothing to do with proper mechanics or rules application.

So, if you don't give a rat's a$$ about doing it right for your own games, consider and show some respect for your fellow blues and stick to the prescribed mechanics so we don't have to "re-educate" the teams when they make it to a regional or a national tounament.

This really is about respect,
Your respect for the game and your responsibility to the teams that you serve.
OK

It is rather presumptious and unprofessional for you to bash anyone,especially one you do not know.

The signal I desribed, the double fist for ball hitting the plate, violates no standard covered by ASA. I find it useful at several levels in making the game enjoyable and informational for the players.

I would never use it at an advanced level of play since it would be of no value.


I am glad you reached your goals, although I am sure one of them was not to be rude.

Presumtious of me to bash you???????????????
That could be but I doubt it.
I do bash umpires that make the real umpires look stupid by your omission of proper mechanics.
The signal you describe DOES INDEED violate standards covered by ASA for you to say otherwise is arrogant and stupid thus worthy of bashing.
One of my goals has been to use any means necessary to get sub-standard umpires to improve their game.
That has included being blunt, rude, beratting in fun and sometimes telling an umpire to go home.
It has also included having tons of fun, teaching, exhorting, etc.
It also has included the pleasure of seeing those who are teachable reach a deserved regional and national assignment.

Hey, if you are content to be a slug and stink up the field, so be it.
Just don't expect any kind words from real umpires, Ok?

You're ignoring the UIC's on here that state it should not be used. UIC's don't make up their standards for what should and shouldn't be done, as far as I know.

I have seen over 30 different rule books and umpire's manuals(or variastions) since I started umpiring. The suggested mechanics have changed dozens of times. The constants center on hustle, a thorough knowledge of the rules, and to dress and behave professionally.

I made a comment about a technique that hundreds of ASA umpires, and others, use and said I liked it. It is well within the parameters of techniques that each umpire uses to manage a game.

You may not like the technique which is your choice.

Your responses, however, hardly reflect the level of achievement you claim to have.

Here is my take on this topic:

1) The prescribed mechanics and signals are so partners can work with each other first time on the field and so players, coaches, and fans will know what the umpire's call is without having to hear the verbal.

2) Many umpires object to limiting themselves to these mechanics and signals because of everything from local custom to a built-in rebellious streak.

3) Non-standard signals and mechanics are evidence of a less well-trained umpire or one who basically doesn't give a damn about what his sanctioning body requires or recommends. He's gonna do it his way and nobody can stop him.

4) The fist-pounding serves no useful purpose. It communicates no information that the players need to have to know what they should do. It is no different from any other call of "ball". If there is no stealing, they don't do anything anyway. If there is stealing, the dead ball call works, is standard, and everyone understands what it means.

Fist pounding is hardly the only example of non-prescribed signals. It is, however, evidence of... well, see #3.

No one is going to change Mr Piano's mind, and if you browse the other boards on this site, you'll notice that his internet personna is at least consistent.

Well, your discussion in (1) is certainly true.
Your conclusion in (3) is wrong.

The mechanic I described does not violate any thing in the manual and is a well established custom in the leagues our association officiates. We sent three umpires to the nationals last year, alone.

And again, we see the arrogance of a willful ignorance that manifests itself in magnanimous fashion.

Why am I beginning to think this guy is a troll?

I note you didn't dispute #4. So, why do it? Really? The second part of #3 doesn't fit you? Gosh, ya fooled me.

Not true. ASA Umpire Manual, Slow Plate Mechanics, Calling Balls and Strikes, There is more, but you aren't interested anyway.

This could only be construed to mean that you have never been actually or adequately evaluated, now doesn't it?

Just what association do you belong to?
To what part of the US can we ascribe this aberration of the known world?

There is no verbal with the double fist,,,,so the admonition about being a broadcaster or an announcer has no bearing on the discusion.

That last sentance says it all.
I may not have worked slow pitch for 35 years but have for 25 plus.
I have had to change mechanics many times over the years and didn't like the changes at first in most cases.
However, I wanted to do the game right so I changed.
The whole thing is attitude, an attitude of respect for the game, players and your fellow blues.

You attitude is one reason the Player Reps and other council members see umpires as a only slightly necessary evil presence in the ball games.

You Jimmy P are one of the reasons that umpires such as Mike are ignored at the National Council meetings when there is a change that is needed.

Thanks for nothing, and while you are at it.........
give those game fees back to the little ole church league you work

THAT IS A CUSTOM, TRIED AND TRUE, AROUND HERE.

I understand that you have no intention of changing, let alone admitting you are wrong on this board, but you conveniently overlook the only body motion prescribed for a ball. I also said there were other instructions to umpires on making the ball call, but since you are not interested, I'm not going to waste my time typing them. Suffice it to say, your claim that the fist pounding signal does not violate ASA umpire mechanics and signals is wrong. You can continue to claim it isn't wrong, but it is.

That would be your interpretation, not mine.

I hope you get another 25 years. Umpiring is enjoyable, although I must say I run into more arguments and rude behavior on here than I ever do on the field.:)

Reading comprehension, more like.

By majority vote of the members of this forum, I am pleased to present you with the following award.

http://eteamz.active.com/softballump...es/trollof.jpg

For $50 I can have an commemorative embroidered patch made for you to proudly display on your umpire shirt. Let me know.

Disgression is always the better part of valor, even in sophomoric execution.

Mr. Pot, there is an easy remedy for that. Feel free to utilize it.

Good bye.

I don't know what disgression is, but from your responses in this thread, it is clear you didn't mean discretion.

Either that, or you are announcing that you are turning over a new leaf.

No, But I will spend more time editing.:)

How Cuuuuuuuuuute, a slow pitch squabble :D

I would like to remind the noob that slapping fists together might cause the slow pitch umpire to spill his beer, thus making this the worst mechanic ever.

WHOO HOO seasons starting then we can have some real fights.

:cool:

You don't tug on Superman's cape,
you don't pi$$ in the wind,
you don't pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger,
and you don't bother trying to tell Jimpiano how to umpire, since he knows more than the collective knowledge of this entire board.

Stop pi$$ing in the wind, please.

And apparently knows more than Merle, Henry, Craig, Kevin, Wild Bill, Larry, Jim, Dave, Jerry, Bernie, Steve...

I have another question, however, about those evals. Jim, what relation were they to you? SRW asked a valid question: is your last name Gilman?:eek:

Wow.

A technique used by thousands of umpires drives this forum nuts.

I feel honored.

Another mechanic used by "thousands" of umpires- well, maybe not "thousands", since I haven't personally observed "thousands" doing it, and doubt that you have either- is to announce the location of the pitch, as in "too high", "outside" or, my favorite, "deep".

Since I've seen a lot of umpires do this, does that make it the right thing to do?

If I decide to start using that mechanic in my games, because I feel that it adds something for the participants, does that make it a proper mechanic?

Is this mechanic any more right or wrong than using a non-standard signal to describe the location of the pitch?

The manual advises against verbally describing the location of a ball outside the strike zone.

It says nothing about a visual signal concerning the ball hitting the plate.

If "the manual says" is a valid guideline, the manual also advises against using unauthorized signals.

Since the "fist pound" is not described in said manual, it is an unauthorized signal.

As I said before, I have used the signal for years along with countless other contemporaries. If you prefer to use the book as your only guide to signals, that is your choice. I find the signal useful in the lower leagues and is univsersally understood.

Happy umpiring.

It is not universally understood, and many teams would wonder what in the H#### you are saying with that signal.

why don't you admit that you would rather just do things, "your way" instead of using the prescribed mechanics,
and admit that you pick and choose what guidelines to use in spite of the Umpire Mechanics section of the rule book?

In other words, why don't you admit that you are a dud?
and that you have no desire to change?
and that you are a troll?

etc
etc
etc

Thanks for the advice, although the ad hominems diminish your credibility in my opinion.

I will make sure that in all ASA sanctioned games to follow the guidelines.

[quote=jimpiano]Thanks for the advice, although the ad hominems diminish your credibility in my opinion.
[quote]

Your opinion of my credibility is NOT one of my greater worries in life.

It is really too bad that you can't just admit that you need to change and adapt to proper mechanics.

[QUOTE=scottk_61][quote=jimpiano]Thanks for the advice, although the ad hominems diminish your credibility in my opinion.
This forum is not exclusive to ASA, not even umpires.

The leagues I work in all have variations of rules and regulations, none conform to any particular rulebook. The umpires are supervised by the league commissioners.

I do belong to ASA and attend the local clinics. The ASA tournaments are dwindling,however. When working for ASA I do try and follow its guidelines.

The plate signal you so abhor will always be used in the leagues I feel it will be helpful to the players.

You never have answered the question of what the players do differently because of your fist pumping that they would not have done with a simple "ball". So, why and how is it helpful?

There are two leagues where the signal is helpful. Co-ed and the lowest mens' leagues. Someone is always asking "where was that pitch?" The fist pump quiets everyone when the ball has hit the plate.

OK, but then why are you opposed to vocalizing the location of the pitch? Same thing, right?

Not to me, since a pitch hitting the plate looks pretty to good to most of the players on the field. I never verbalize anything beyond the decision. But I do spend time between innings and after the game helping a neophyte pitcher understand the slow pitch strike zone.

One exception to the verbalization answer. In these lower leagues I use different words on an illegal pitch, at least in the first weeks of the season.

An illegal pitch is either "flat" or too high"(with the appropriate delayed dead ball signal) Most of these novices seem intimidated by the word "illegal" until they understand that they can swing, if they want, at an illegal pitch. Flat and Too High they seem to understand.

So do lots of other pitches.

[quote=jimpiano][quote=scottk_61]Are you still here?
Yet the OP was.

I am beginning to wonder if this person actually umpires any games. He seems to reply to every post within minutes. Makes me wonder if he's ever on the field working games, showing off his fist pump. Lots of time to reply to posts, tho.

No, the original post was an inquiry about illegal pitches.

Comments about signals for balls hitting the plate came much later.

But it is interesting to note that you suggested a technique that is NOT prescribed by the ASA manual:

---"However, there is a prescribed mechanic for a ball hitting the plate or ground in front of the plate or the batter which is described on page 225 of umpire manual section of the 2007 ASA Umpire Edition of the rules book.

It is a good mechanic to use for all SP games whether stealing is being allowed or not."------

The reference on Page 225 refers only to games with stealing. Without stealing there is no need for any signal since the ball is always dead.

I explained my use of the double fist for balls hitting the plate and how and why I use it and in what level of play. Please explain how your signal, which is also not ASA approved, is better?