Patrick
 

Patrick

Saw schedule for Indoor Cup in Amsterdam next month. Although we do not work together, I have a game after you. If you have any clout, maybe you can get us a game together. Look forward to meeting you

Larry White

Long time no see around here. Larry.

Hi Larry,

I'm not Patrick, but... we (you&I) are working together. See scedule on saturday 16:10 - 17:00...

I'm also looking forward meeting you and the crew from the "new, promised land".
Never knew Paddy was attending to this forum too!

Indoor Cup
 

Hi Alex

I thought the name Alex was for a girl from the Oregon area that is going with us. She sometimes uses April and sometimes uses Alex. Glad to be working with somone from your area. It is always great to meet new people and make new friends. See you in a couple of weeks.

Larry

Scott,

There hasn't been very much fun to comment on since our friend from California quit his remarks about Cat crow hopping. It was kind of fun to bait him and then sit back and see what happened. Since then I have kept kind of quiet.

Larry

I'm a dutch male. And there are more ways to shorten Alexander. We'll see euchother next week

Sander

Hi Larry,

we can always ask our UIC if we can do a game on sunday, that schedule hasn't been set yet.
I just want to point out one small thing, the tournament will be at a place called Schiedam very lose to Rotterdam and not Amsterdam, if you look it up it will probably seem very close to you but for us there is a big difference (and for the people living in Rotterdam and Amsterdam there is too, there is a lot of rivalry between the 2 cities especially soccer wise).

I will see you in a couple of weeks, have a great new year.

Patrick

PS. Sander it might be easier to just use the same handle that you use on other boards :)

Pant color
 

Patrick and Alex:

One question. We got our shirts yesterday. Navy blue. We were told to bring navy pants. That combination doesn't look great. Is navy pant what we are supposed to bring?

Thanks

PS my email is [email protected]

pant color
 

Hi Larry,

Yep, blue pant it is.
The dutch baseball and softball-union is a small union in the Neth.'s So there isn't a lot of money from the state for our sports. Now the umpires in the two sports are really the last group to put some money in. A view years ago we got new shirts, navy blue. Just as the baseball-ump's are used to wear. At that moment we had to wear them with navy pants.
Last summer we've got new pants (grey, again just as the baseball-ump's). Now we look just the same as an baseball umpire. A large group softball-umpires, inc. our national UIC, don't want to wear the grey pants. We are NOT baseball umpires, don't want to look like them!
So, we still use our old navy pant, together with the navy shirts. But I admit it's very blue...
Don't get me wrong, I'm greatfull for the "gift". But why should we give up our identity in our uniform?

Paddy, you've got my mail about Honig's Europe this friday? please repley on it. And than you can explain what you mean in your first post...

Have all a happy/save NewYear
Sander

Pants
 

Hi Larry,

just to add to what Alex wrote, one of the reasons that we don't wear gray is because in international softball (read ESF and ISF) you are supposed to wear navy blue pants and light blue shirt. The rules that we normally play by are ISF rules (translated into dutch off course) so that makes us wear the same colors.
Our federation took our light blue shirts several years ago and made us wear the same as the baseball umpires, just last year they gave us grey pants as well. And just like Alex said some feel like we look to much like baseball umpires now and don't like it at all. It doesn't make a big difference to me, but then again I was the only umpire at our last meeting to say so. The rest wanted to go back to navy blue.
Hope that answers your question.
Maybe for next year the organisation can aarange light blue shirts, but that won't make a difference this year.
BTW reading some websites I see that a lot of federations don't have strict dress code. From what I read if you are doing ASA one state requires navy blue and another requires grey or is there a logic in it.

Bye,
Patrick

Strictly personal opinion.

I think it is a lack of intestinal fortitude. Six/seven years ago, when the different uniforms began being used at the local levels, I was told the allowance for the heather gray was due to the number of ASA umpires which also worked HS & collegiate ball, even though at that time, and to the best of my knowledge, NCAA's official uniform does not include gray pants.

Personally, I have a problem with this as those who work the other organizations certainly make enough money to afford the purchase of their official uniform as opposed to ASA-only umpires meeting dual standards.

There was also the issue that umpires wanted to have multiple combinations so they could look cool, like the MLB umpires. My feeling is if you want to look like a baseball umpire, go work baseball.

Then there are those who claim the gray pants are much cooler, temperature wise. My belief is that the material, regardless of color, will hold the heat between the fabric and legs. If you want "cooler", get off the dirt at every opportunity and stand on the grass whenever possible. While the lighter color MAY reflect the sun better than the blue, I don't think it will not deter the reflection of the sun off the surface of the field.

I just wish ASA would pick one uniform and stick with it. The choice should have nothing to do with other org (NCAA, NFHS, etc.) or other games like baseball. The selection should be based on the organization's umpire signature. We are "blue" and we should wear blue.

JMHO

navy blue
 

Sorry guys, i didn't mean to get a forum started, just wanted to clarify. I have both navy and gray and have no problem wearing whatever. Just did not want to bring both due to lack of space. I really have to leave room in my luggage for items that my wife buys while there to bring back.

Really looking forward to this trip. I will buy both of you a beer while there.

Larry

Now, here it's 02:30h 01/01/07 I'm loaded with Champange. Can't see any beer, but I'll guess that will be forgotten on the 12th
Happy New Year everybody!!!

Larry, we'll drink at Schiedam at friendship and the love for the sport...

Sander

Alex:

AMEN:D

wrt "I just wish ASA would pick one uniform and stick with it."
That would be great if all sanctions could agree on one uniform and more importantly, stop changing it every time they get a chance. Even if some NCAA umpires make enough to pay for extra uniforms, most have more useful purposes for it and some actually need the income. I really don't care what color or what uniform we wear and I'm certainly not concerned about what color shirt looks more fashionable with what color pants. The point is it being uniform and "uniform" means same. If we all wore the same, then the uniformity would be apparent and the players and coaches would accept not only our appearance, but our consistency as well. We are on the field to work, not model. I'm really tired of buying and maintaining multiple "sets of clothes"; then having to replace them all every time some manufacturer takes a bigwig out to lunch in Oklahoma City or Indianapolis.
BTW, anyone who thinks the MLB umps look cool, with their white swoop shoes and non-matching jackets, should not have a say in what we wear.

Also, it is the fabric and not the color that makes the most difference.

Personally, as an ASA umpire, I don't give a damn what you wear for other sanctioning bodies. It is not my responsibility, nor should it be at my expense, to carry additional uniforms because YOU want to work other games sanctioned by other associations.

Just recently, as a UIC, I set a uniform for a tournament. In spite of my personal opinion, I allowed for powder over navy and navy over gray. I made this known to all selected umpires and specifically asked all to inform me if they did not have any part of the optional uniforms.

The only response was from one umpire who did not have a navy shirt and asked if he should buy one. I strongly suggested he contact other umpires to borrow a shirt. He did not know any umpires with a navy shirt, so he purchased one.

Come the tournament when asked about uniform availability, two or three informed me they did not have gray pants. I had no choice, but to discount the use of anything other than powder over gray. I was not impressed that those umpires did not just answer my question so I could inform the others. Meanwhile, this umpire purchase a shirt for which he has no use.

Again, I'm referring to ASA softball. I don't give a damn what other associations do. ASA umpires should not be responsible to adjust to benefit others who choose to work the games of another sanctioning body.

While the principle of your point is well taken, you are looking at this at the wrong level. The motivation is driven by local leagues, etc., needing to attract umpires.

Actually, I'm referring to all facets. The incident to which I referred was a national, not a local friendly. Then again, the HS & college games in this area pay good enough to afford whatever uniform is necessary.

Speaking of motivation, would not the expense of multiple uniforms actually make it more difficult to get umpires to register and/or attempt to move up the ladder?

I'm one of those guys who work multiple sanctioning bodies. I think I'm coming to the opinion that I'd like to see a separate uniform for each. I wear the navy trousers for college and ASA. I wear gray trousers for everyone else - and that includes college, high school, ASA, PONY, and a few baseball groups.
I spend whatever it takes to have good looking uniforms - that's got to be the easiest high mark on any evaluation as I'm in complete control of that.
I did a high school state final one year where one of the umps didn't bother to spend to have a good looking uniform. One of the comments that was made was how could everything else with his appearance look so bad and his shirt look brand new - it's because I loaned him one of my shirts.
My choice be given, I prefer the navy pants. I don't care whether the grays are cooler. When you sweat the way I do, gray pants become two-tone - and that detracts from the appearance. The navy does not show that. Both show dust/dirt equally.
I was at that national Mike uic'd. You should have heard the annoyance (another word for whining) over only having one uniform because not everyone there could meet the standard for two uniforms. I was annoyed - I had taken the time to carry uniforms to the dressing room that I couldn't use - let's call that wasted tiem...... Mike's saying he was not impressed is just a bit of an understatement.

btw Cecil - Folks umpiring NCAA games are making well over $100 per double header, sometimes even over $200. While not well-paid when compared to football or basketball, that's not a bad extra inclome. In my case, I'm taking vacation time, so I get my regular paycheck in addition to the college & high school fees. We can afford different uniforms that used by high school umps - and personally, I want to look different than a high school ump when I'm working a college game.

In my view, there is no excuse, other than laziness, for an umpire to show up at any game assignment (let alone an ASA national fer cryin' out loud) without the required uniform(s). If they can't afford the proper and required uniform parts (ALL of them), then they should decline the assignment. The very least would be to communicate the problem in advance; your umpires did not even do that (even though you asked). I assume this was properly reflected in their evaluations.

I agree with you that there is no need for ASA to allow multiple uniform combinations as full-fledged ASA National Championship Finals to accomodate the uniforms the possible umpire pool owns. ASA should set the uniform standard for those tournaments based on the image they want to put forward for their umpires, and require umpires to obtain the proper uniform, or go home.

However, for the so-called "regional nationals", the story is different. The umpire pool for these is (by my experience) almost exclusively local. For those, the tournament UIC needs the flexibility (I would think) to ensure he has the games covered with qualified umpires.

On a personal level, I'm with Steve - I spend the money necessary to have the proper uniforms and to keep them looking professional. AFA in my area allows either black or gray shirts. They prefer black non-logoed hats and black non-logoed ball bags, but they allow navy blue for both hats and bags to accomodate local umpires. So, when I do AFA tournaments locally, I have in my kit all combinations, so I can match whatever my partner shows up with.

Wow. I’m pretty new at this (4 Years ASA) and didn’t know about all the different uniforms. Here, ASA, NFHS, and PONY all use navy pants and light blue shirts. The only difference is the ASA logo on their light blue shirts. Even with that, I have 4 pants and 3 of each shirt just to make sure.

I’m going to another region’s NUS (ours doesn’t have one scheduled this year). Will I have to buy the gray pants just for a 2 day school?

You might want to give them a call and find out before you mail them a check.

Larry
 

You have never bought a round of drinks in your life!!!!!!:eek:

Maybe that is one of his New Years resolutions. :D

And maybe while it has never happened before doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. You are never to old to change (or was it learn :D )

Either way, Larry I will see you next week.

Socalu
 

Who bought in Houston last year? I just don't buy in SoCal because I am the visitor. Besides, should't your handle be OrU?

Hi, W.

Patrick, don't believe anything this guy says. He is the only one I know that leaves the plate right in the middle of a TV game to go to the bathroom and leavesa national audience waiting after commercials are over.;)

Worked a tourney two years ago where the UIC specified powder blue over heather grey, no exceptions. Then he had powder blue shirts (various sizes) and heather grey pants (a few sizes) to sell to the 4-5 numbskulls that showed up with their baseball navy blue shirts on - one idiot had Navy blue over navy blue pants and looked like he worked at Fedex or something. Told them they could buy one, find one, or go home. They all bought one. Made a decent amount on the shirts as a bonus, and taught those boys a bit of a lesson (hopefully).

How sweet a beer can taste............
 

Larry actually bought us friday night a round a beer. It tasted great! Even while it was a "Heiniken"beer. (I'll never buy that brand, to much chemicals) I'll hope that we can share a drink together again soon...

We've had a super time this weekend. If anyone here around is invited to the IndoorCup in the Netherlands and doesn't know if he/she would go, I would say: Go for it ! ! !
I'll hope to get invited next year. If not, I know I'll be watching the games.

The USA/Canada-teams and umpire's are now in Paris (France) for a view days and will be flying home this week...

Not true!!! Larry picked up the tab for our entire dinner one night in Fort Worth after a local college tourney. Larry's always a generous guy.

Gary

Indoor Cup
 

Sander & Patrick:

What a great time and wonderful hospitality. Next time I will buy Palm beer - much better. If anyone ever gets a chance to go here - GO. Great friends and a great time.

Gary - Thanks for sticking up for me. Willie was just trying to make up for his lack of confidence and umpiring skills by saying I was cheap. (Actually he is one of the best umps in the country, but don't let him know that, his head is big enough already.

Hi Larry,

Did you have fun in Paris ?
I hope that umpiring with us wasn't your worst experience :)
(I don't think it should be, but you never know)

For the people that don't know PALM beer is a belgium beer that taste a lot better than BUD (but than again which beer doesn't :D ) (It also tastes a lot better than many dutch beers)

bye,
Patrick

If you go on a binge with Bud, you are in a race between alcohol poisoning and water intoxication. :cool:

Probably more likely the latter! :D

I guess you both do have to come down to Europe to learn and taste some real beer. Although I like the German better than the Belgian beer, Patrick has a point. It's always better than any US-kind a beer. So little alcohol, it's like a kids-beer. And I don't like water, or it has to be to make some coffee...
(Afterall, tea is only there for the sick.......)

Oh...trust me, there are plenty of real beers here. Just none that get any international distribution, such as the Bud/Miller/Coors group gets. There are more than 1600 breweries in the US, all of which are brewing "real beer" with the exception of about 10% of them. (And that 10% just happen to be the types that make all the money, such as Anhauser Busch.)

I have been to Europe and consumed my share of beer there, and there is no style or type brewed there that I cannot find here. It is sad that the world only knows of America beers such as Budweiser, and know so little about such American craft brewers as Avery, Sierra Nevada, Pyramid, Full Sail, New Belgium, North Coast, Stone, Lagunitas, Victory, Brooklyn, Alaska Brewing, Breckenridge, Flying Dog.....well....you get the picture. The list goes on and on and on. Now...if you are ever in the states, especially down Texas way, let me know and we will see what we can do about setting you up with some real American beer, and not that pale yellow fizzy swill that so many think of as American beer!

Or, in MN... Summit Pale Ale... great stuff.

But, then, my favorite beer of all time is Pedigree Bitter draught (a British "real" ale - meaning unpasteruized; as a visitor, it takes a day or so for the plumbing to adapt, but it is worth it.)

My post only said something about BUD, not about any of the other beers. Last year has been my first time to the USA (this summer will be my second time) but I already found out that there are some nice beers around, you just have to look for it a bit. Its the same here in Holland, everybody knows Heineken and some people love it, I just don't like it.

But if I ever come down to Texas I might take you up on that offer
Or if you ever come down to Holland I might be able to buy you beer :)

Yes...Summit is very good. And I know I omitted many great American brewers, but the space and time is limited. It would have taken quite a while to remember all of them, anyway. Isn't Linenkuegel(sp) also in MN?

As for favorites, man, that would be hard for me. I really like a good Oatmeal Stout, and Samuel Smith and Young's(both of the UK), make some excellent ones.

I know; I was just putting in a plug for a great St. Paul beer.Close (on both spelling and location!) Leinenkugel's brewery is in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin. They do make some good beers, but I prefer Summit Pale Ale.

Well...yeah....to a Texan I guess that would be pretty close. :o I couldn't remember where, exactly, they were from. I just knew it was from somewhere up in that neck of the woods. I tried a wheat beer of theirs once that I liked, and I am not much on wheat beers.

Patrick
 

Patrick

If you come to Texas, you have to stay at my house. Same for you Sander. I had a wonderful time in Paris. What a wonderful trip and both my wife and I had the time of our lives.

In case all of you guys don't know, Patrick is coming to Oregon to work the Little League World Series this summer.

Both he and Sander (Dutch Alex) are going for European certification this summer (do I have this right, guys?)

They are excellent umpires and are working hard to move up the ladder in European circles. We will soon see them working World Championship games on TV