double base question

[shipwreck]

Here is the scenario, girl hits the ball and beats the throw to first, using the orange base. When she returns back to first, she first steps back on the orange. Meanwhile the fielder tags her while she is on the orange. Is she out? Did fielder need to tag her or just touch the white while she was on the orange? How long can she take to get back to the white, say maybe via the orange? Dave Coffey

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by shipwreck
Here is the scenario, girl hits the ball and beats the throw to first, using the orange base. When she returns back to first, she first steps back on the orange. Meanwhile the fielder tags her while she is on the orange. Is she out? Did fielder need to tag her or just touch the white while she was on the orange? How long can she take to get back to the white, say maybe via the orange? Dave Coffey

In NFHS the runner is never out for touching white
base rather than the colored base.

See Suggested Double First Base Rules in NFHS 2001
Rule book page 74. (Did not see any forecasted
changes for this in 2002)

For ASA, I dont see from your scenario that you have
a play either. See Rule 2 Sec. 3. H. 1. a. thru g,
for usage of double base.

glen

[shipwreck]

Glen, NFHS states that "Once the runner reaches first base, the runner must then use the white base. My question never asked if a runner was ever out for touching the white base rather than the orange. Dave

[Dakota]

In ASA, the runner may return to the white without liability to be put out, assuming she did not make an attempt at 2nd.

POE 31 says If the batter-runner overruns first base and returns to the colored portion (rather than the white), sufficient time to touch the white should be given, particularly in youth play.

If the fielder tagged the runner right away, I've got a nothing.

I don't know what "sufficient time" means except that it is an umpire judgment call.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by shipwreck
Glen, NFHS states that "Once the runner reaches first base, the runner must then use the white base. My question never asked if a runner was ever out for touching the white base rather than the orange. Dave

Dave,

I agree, I really did not answer your question,
just quoted NFHS rule to you. You are correct
in your statement that once runner reaches
1B she/he must then use the white portion of base.

I do not know how much time elasped on your play
prior to a tag, but time should be given for the
BR to get back and set prior to continuing play.

Technically you would have an out if the
runner remained on the orange portion and the ball
was in the circle in the pitchers hands and the
pitcher is not making a play on runner. It is not
an out that should be called IMO. In Texas, rarely
is double base utilized in NFHS games and few if any,
coaches really understand completely the rule. Go
over it in pre game conference. Do a little preventative
umpiring.

Again only MO

glen

[shipwreck]

Glen, thanks for your input on it. I agree, some time needs to be given ti let them get back to the white. Here in Nebraska, it is required to have a double first base. We just started our HS season last week. Dave

[Skahtboi]

Dave:

Are you going around trying to stir up the various officiating boards with this question? I just posted my second reply to it over at ref online at http://www.gmcgriff.com, and don't have the energy to repost it all here. I am afraid that some of my comments are being misinterpreted, but what can you do when you are an imperfect being dealing with an imperfect means of communication?

Best regards,

Scott

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by shipwreck
Glen, thanks for your input on it. I agree, some time needs to be given ti let them get back to the white. Here in Nebraska, it is required to have a double first base. We just started our HS season last week. Dave

Hey, good luck with your games. We dont start
until February.

glen

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by shipwreck
Here is the scenario, girl hits the ball and beats the throw to first, using the orange base. When she returns back to first, she first steps back on the orange. Meanwhile the fielder tags her while she is on the orange. Is she out? Did fielder need to tag her or just touch the white while she was on the orange? How long can she take to get back to the white, say maybe via the orange? Dave Coffey

A lot depends on the time the umpire allows her to return to the bag. There is no time restriction on how quick a runner must return to 1B when overrunning the base.

It also depends on the game being played. If it isn't FP, then the ball is going to be dead anyhow.

[shipwreck]

I am NOT trying to stir up anything Scott, just a question I had. Dave

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by shipwreck
I am NOT trying to stir up anything Scott, just a question I had. Dave

I think that you are doing the right
thing at this point, especially since
your NFHS games have already started.
Get all the information you can and if
and when a situation arises you are
ready for it.

glen

[Skahtboi]

I was just joking about the "stirring things up" Dave. See what I mean about me and this darned technology being so imperfect? By the way, Dave, have you read the rest of the thread over at gmcgriff yet?

[Steve M]

Since some have started Fed ball, are you using the 2001 rule book or isthe 2002 out now?

[Roger Greene]

In N.C. middle school playes softball in the fall and high school plays in the spring.

We are still using the 2001 rules. I don't think the 2002 rules will be in effect untill January 1. We won't get our books and have our clinics untill January and February anyway.

Roger Greene,
Member UT

P.S. First middle school game today. 8 innings, 2:39 time.
Visitors won 21-17. Maybe 2 or 3 runs were earned. One coach questioned way a girl could run on an uncaught 3rd strike when there was less than 2 outs, another coach yelled to his pitcher that a bunt was foul because the ball rebounded off the plate.

I'd forgot how some of these games went. At least Thursday I'll be at a school where they usually have a decent team.
Roger

[shipwreck]

We are using the 2001 rule book. I guess Nebraska is behind many states in that we play in the fall. JV game last night the visiting team's coaches were clueless. No idea what an illegal pitch was. Varsity game much better 6-3. Dave