ASA DP & Fed. DH

[shipwreck]

ASA is very, very clear on their DP rules. In Fed. they call it the DH. What are the similiarities and differences in Fed. and ASA. I couldn't find much in Fed. except stating that you can use a DH if you choose. On this I like ASA's way of explaining the rule. Any thoughts? Dave Coffey

[Steve M]

Dave,
When comparing ASA's DP/DEFO to Fed's DH, you're really comparing apples and oranges. Some of the similarities of the DP and the DP positions are:
-Can be for any defensive player (not just pitchers).
-Must be there at start of the game - can't be added once game has started.
-No multiple substitutions allowed that change the batting order.

Some of the key differences are:
-Once the Fed "DEFO" plays offensively OR the DH plays defensively, the DH role is done for the duration of the game - the lineup goes from 10 to 9 & stays at 9. The ASA role of DP is NEVER terminated during the course of the game.
-ASA's DP/DEFO use can see the lineup go from 10 to 9 to 10 to 9 to 10
-ASA's DP may play defensively for any player (other than the DEFO) without affecting the lineup. The D may play defensively for several players during the course of the game.

This is by no means all of the differences, but it's enough to show that this really is a comparison of apples and oranges. Now, as for how very clearASA is on this - they are getting better, but it took me close to 2 full seasons to understand what can & can not be done with the DP. While most of us have made understanding this much harder than it should be, I do think ASA could do a better job of making clear what this position is. The NCAA DP is identical to ASA's and my personal opinion is that NCAA is much clearer about the positions - until 2002, anyway. Starting with 2002, NCAA is screwing things up by changing what the DP and DEFO are called. Go figger.

[shipwreck]

Steve, I printed out your explanation on DP/DEFO from before. It sure helped make light of tricky rule interpretation. Thanks, Dave

[Steve M]

If you can get your hands on an NCAA book, there is a table in it showing what the DP & DEFO can & can not do. I got permission from NCAA to copy it & use it for training purposes, so I use it often.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Just out of curiousity, is there any ASA umpire here who wouldn't mind seeing the DEFO just disappear and have them go to either a DH or EP?

[Dakota]

Top Ten Reasons for ASA Keeping DP/DEFO

10. The NCAA has just changed the names of the positions, so we can't abandon them now.

9. It is different from OBR.

8. It provides continuing fodder for the umpire / rules boards.

7. If I can learn this rule, it proves I'm not senile yet.

6. The Umpire can make arbitrary rulings during a game and not a single coach will have nerve enough to challenge him.

5. It makes pre game line up preparation take forever during tournaments as rookie scorekeepers ask each other, "What's a DEFO?"

4. The sense of drama is increased when the coach sends the DP in to play defense for someone other than the DEFO, and you can't wait to explain the rule when the BOO appeal is made.

3. It provides continuing amusement to watch coaches sweat over designating the DP/DEFO and then treat it like a simple DH during the game.

2. It makes me really appreciate Steve M and Gulf Coast Blue and their gift for making the seemingly complex simple and understandable.

1. When understood, it allows a team to make maximum use of the hot glove or pitcher who can't hit a lick AND the utility fielder with a strong bat, using 10 weapons against the opposition's nine. Also, the coach can cycle the DP through the defense the whole game, giving his players much needed rest on those hot tournament days without burning his substitution opportunities.

[Steve M]

Mike,
I'd actually like to see the DH disappear from softball & have all the sanctioning bodies use the DP/DEFO. It's not that hard a rule to understand - once we stop trying to make it difficult (at least, that was my problem in understanding it). And it's such a flexible position that I think it's the most potent position in the book.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Steve M
Mike,
I'd actually like to see the DH disappear from softball & have all the sanctioning bodies use the DP/DEFO. It's not that hard a rule to understand - once we stop trying to make it difficult (at least, that was my problem in understanding it). And it's such a flexible position that I think it's the most potent position in the book.

Personally, I'd like to see all of the CS rules dropped. Field nine, bat same nine. Field ten, bat same ten. I'm all for participation, but for God's sake, let's stop diluting the game.

If the "participation factor" is so important to the teams, just allow free substitution and quit keeping score. Play 7 innings and go out for pizza and your favorite liquid refreshment.

That will never happen in this country. Too many egos and not enough intelligent human beings to let that happen.

[Skahtboi]

I, too, would like to see the game less watered down. As for participation, isn't that the purpose of making substitutions?

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Just out of curiousity, is there any ASA umpire here who wouldn't mind seeing the DEFO just disappear and have them go to either a DH or EP?

I for one would not mind seeing its disapperance.
However, having a copy of Steve's explanation of
the rule has helped greatly.

glen