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-   -   Batted ball hits second base then rolls foul (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/28018-batted-ball-hits-second-base-then-rolls-foul.html)

John Robertson Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:42am
Batted ball hits second base then rolls foul
 
A friend of mine swore he saw this happen once. I'm skeptical. I never have. Nevertheless, how would you rule? Here's the alleged situation:

Batted ball hits second base. The base is so spongy that the ball ricochets backwards and has enough momentum to roll across the foul line between third and home without being touched. The catcher then picks up the ball near the on-deck circle. Fair ball? or foul ball?

Bandit Mon Aug 28, 2006 01:38pm
Ball hits Second Base
 
Fair Ball...

tcblue13 Mon Aug 28, 2006 01:48pm
If it bounces into foul territory off of first or third it is fair. The ball certainly passed both corner bags if it made it to second base

Fair Ball

TexBlue Mon Aug 28, 2006 01:52pm
ASA definition of a fair ball states if the ball hits 1st, 2nd or 3rd base, it's a fair ball.

Mountaineer Mon Aug 28, 2006 01:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexBlue
ASA definition of a fair ball states if the ball hits 1st, 2nd or 3rd base, it's a fair ball.
Same in NF - probably all rule sets.

mcrowder Mon Aug 28, 2006 02:06pm
Fair - all rulesets (and not that it's completely relevant, but all codes in baseball too).

John Robertson Mon Aug 28, 2006 02:19pm
I'd call it fair too. Has anyone actually seen this play happen?

greymule Mon Aug 28, 2006 03:04pm
The ball certainly passed both corner bags if it made it to second base

The OP of course describes a fair ball.

But be careful here. Fed may draw a fair/foul line between 1B and 3B, but other codes do not. In ASA, if a high pop lands a foot before 2B and then spins backward foul, it is a foul ball. It is not considered as having passed 1B or 3B.

Mountaineer Mon Aug 28, 2006 04:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by greymule
The ball certainly passed both corner bags if it made it to second base

The OP of course describes a fair ball.

But be careful here. Fed may draw a fair/foul line between 1B and 3B, but other codes do not. In ASA, if a high pop lands a foot before 2B and then spins backward foul, it is a foul ball. It is not considered as having passed 1B or 3B.
Where does NF "draw a fair/foul line between 1st and 3rd?:confused:

greymule Mon Aug 28, 2006 04:29pm
Where does NF "draw a fair/foul line between 1st and 3rd?

Fed uses the 1B-3B line in baseball ("contacts fair ground on or beyond an imaginary line between first and third base"), but for reasons known only to them does not use it in softball. I don't know of any other code that uses that line, though many coaches and even umpires have tried to make such a claim to me in both OBR and ASA.

In its baseball clinics, Fed emphasizes that rule, which is probably why so many people have assumed that it applies to other codes.

Mountaineer Mon Aug 28, 2006 05:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by greymule
Where does NF "draw a fair/foul line between 1st and 3rd?

Fed uses the 1B-3B line in baseball ("contacts fair ground on or beyond an imaginary line between first and third base"), but for reasons known only to them does not use it in softball. I don't know of any other code that uses that line, though many coaches and even umpires have tried to make such a claim to me in both OBR and ASA.

In its baseball clinics, Fed emphasizes that rule, which is probably why so many people have assumed that it applies to other codes.
Well you scared me - I even came home and pulled out my rulebook and then logged on and saw your post. I would say that's stupid in baseball too.

IRISHMAFIA Mon Aug 28, 2006 06:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by greymule
Where does NF "draw a fair/foul line between 1st and 3rd?

Fed uses the 1B-3B line in baseball ("contacts fair ground on or beyond an imaginary line between first and third base"), but for reasons known only to them does not use it in softball. I don't know of any other code that uses that line, though many coaches and even umpires have tried to make such a claim to me in both OBR and ASA.

In its baseball clinics, Fed emphasizes that rule, which is probably why so many people have assumed that it applies to other codes.
Maybe it was only in baseball, but around here, it was taught as a Fed softball rules for years.

greymule Mon Aug 28, 2006 07:19pm
The 2002 Fed baseball book describes this 1B-3B line under the definition of "fair ball" in 2-5 "Base Hit," while the 2002 softball book definition of "fair ball" falls under (surprise) 2-20 "fair ball."

The baseball book gives 7 criteria. The softball book gives the same criteria, except for the one about the imaginary line.

Of course, these are 2002 books. The softball definition might have changed before or since.

I would say that's stupid in baseball too.

Amen.

WestMichBlue Mon Aug 28, 2006 08:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
Maybe it was only in baseball, but around here, it was taught as a Fed softball rules for years.
You have always complained that Fed softball was run by baseball people in your part of the country. If that is what they were teaching for years, then they were wrong for years.

In all of my Fed books going back to 1979, as part of the definitions of a fair ball, state that "A fair ball is a batted ball that touches first, second or third bases." There has never been any "imaginary line" in the softball book.

WMB

IRISHMAFIA Tue Aug 29, 2006 06:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestMichBlue
You have always complained that Fed softball was run by baseball people in your part of the country. If that is what they were teaching for years, then they were wrong for years.

WMB

And that is part of the issue. Around here, the NFHS UIC for baseball and softball is the same person and he has never been one for softball rules.

I never said they were correct, just that it was the way it was taught around here. Thanks for pointing out the result of what I have been stating.


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