Believe It or Not

[LLPA13UmpDan]

ugh what kind of umpires are those. dang. On number 2 there...thats bad. BR should be called out for leaving baseline/abondonment, and there should then be one out, bases still loaded. Umps kinda cost the defensive team the game. What is the world of baseball/softball coming too?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

ugh what kind of umpires are those. dang. On number 2 there...thats bad. BR should be called out for leaving baseline/abondonment, and there should then be one out, bases still loaded. Umps kinda cost the defensive team the game. What is the world of baseball/softball coming too?

To start, this isn't baseball. It is ASA softball.

Secondly, there is no rule forbidding a runner to deviate from a baseline or abandoning a base.

On a walk, the runners forced by the award are entitled to advance without liability of being put out. (8.5.A)

The umps didn't cost anyone anything. Just because the BR failed to advance to and touch 1B is a separate issue handled through an appeal.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

To start, this isn't baseball. It is ASA softball.

Secondly, there is no rule forbidding a runner to deviate from a baseline or abandoning a base.

On a walk, the runners forced by the award are entitled to advance without liability of being put out. (8.5.A)

The umps didn't cost anyone anything. Just because the BR failed to advance to and touch 1B is a separate issue.

OP: "BR goes into dugout ". That makes the BR out, but nothing the defense can do about the other runners.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

OP: "BR goes into dugout ". That makes the BR out, but nothing the defense can do about the other runners.

You are correct. I got tied up in the "appeal" issue of the umpires leaving the field.

Once the BR enters the dugout, the force of any runner is alleviated assuming the umpires would rule her out.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You are correct. I got tied up in the "appeal" issue of the umpires leaving the field.

Once the BR enters the dugout, the force of any runner is alleviated assuming the umpires would rule her out.

Well, this would only have an effect if BR was called out prior to the run scoring, and even then, the ball is still live. It would take an odd confluence of events to prevent the runner at 3rd from scoring (BR called out AND R1 tagged before reaching home). And even then, the wording of the rule still allows forced runners to advance without liability to be put out - I think you'd have an interesting argument on your hands if this actually happened - BR called out for entering the dugout and a tag of R1 prior to touching home.

But even so, there is NOTHING that would send the runners back to their original bases.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Well, this would only have an effect if BR was called out prior to the run scoring, and even then, the ball is still live. It would take an odd confluence of events to prevent the runner at 3rd from scoring (BR called out AND R1 tagged before reaching home). And even then, the wording of the rule still allows forced runners to advance without liability to be put out - I think you'd have an interesting argument on your hands if this actually happened - BR called out for entering the dugout and a tag of R1 prior to touching home.

But even so, there is NOTHING that would send the runners back to their original bases.

This is a perfect application of Rule 10. Put the runners back on base as the defense should not be penalized for indifference to the runner from 3rd being forced on the walk. Especially late in Championship play.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

This is a perfect application of Rule 10. Put the runners back on base as the defense should not be penalized for indifference to the runner from 3rd being forced on the walk. Especially late in Championship play.

Aww c'mon Tony. The defense is being punished for the inability to throw a strike when the bases are loaded and the batter has a three ball count.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

This is a perfect application of Rule 10. Put the runners back on base as the defense should not be penalized for indifference to the runner from 3rd being forced on the walk. Especially late in Championship play.

Wow.

No, that's an obscene misuse of rule 10. Inventing your own rules where rules already exist that cover the situation.

Very Very Very simple - on a base on balls, the BR is awarded first base and all (ALL!!!) forced runners are entitled to advance to the next base without liability to be put out. Don't forget this is a live ball - had this not been the winning run, all THREE runners could have scored, although only the 1st without liability to be put out. Heck, with no previous outs, perhaps a smart coach would tell all three to score if defense was not paying attention. So even if BR is called out for abandonment, and R1 called out for missing home, the next run would STILL win the game for them.

There is NO RULE, and no logic, that would force runners who advanced both A) without liability to be put out and B) during a live ball to return to the bases where they were when the ball was pitched, merely due to a subsequent out on BR - the 1st out of the inning.

Honestly, I'm amazingly flabbergasted that you suggested this, Tony, as 99% of the time you are posting great responses on these things.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

ugh what kind of umpires are those. dang. On number 2 there...thats bad. BR should be called out for leaving baseline/abondonment, and there should then be one out, bases still loaded. Umps kinda cost the defensive team the game. What is the world of baseball/softball coming too?

LL, Pah-lease. Pot... Kettle ....

On a base on balls, the BR is awarded first base, and all forced runners allowed to advance 1 base without liability to be put out. These runners did advance, apparently. BR can be called out for abandonment (Um, what are you talking about: "BR should be called out for leaving baseline"????), but even so, you simply have an out at first base. If this hadn't been the winning run, play on, with runners at 2nd and 3rd, and one out. I can't even imagine what rule an umpire would pull out of his backside to have 1 out, bases still loaded in a sitch like this. Care to enlighten me?