Believe It or Not

[LMan]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

No runs score if there is an appeal where the BR is ruled out for not touching first base, correct?

If that is the third out, you are correct. Read the OP again.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by LMan

If that is the third out, you are correct. Read the OP again.

Smart me. Got it. Thank you.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

From the 2006 ASA 14A Nationals:

The following are true stories.
The names have been omitted to protect the guilty.

Just the facts:

1. I am U3. PU asks U1 " . . . SWING?" (I couldn't hear the first part.) U1 answers "YES!". Call changed from Ball to Strike. Sounds fine so far, right? The pitch they were discussing was 2 pitches earlier. I couldn't believe that the offensive coach did not ask to go the next step for help. I had to get three stitches to stop the bleeding on the inside of my lip from biting it so hard.


2. Sat 9PM game. Loser gets 5th place. Winner guaranteed 4th and still in it.
Game tied 1-1 after 7.
8th - neither team executes
9th - neither team executes
Top 10th - Vis gets 3
Bot 10th - Home gets 3
Top 11 - Vis does not execute
Bot 11 - Home has bases loaded with no out. 3-2 count on B4. Next pitch is Ball 4. BR goes into dugout to put bat away and then comes back out to the celebration at the plate. Defense is appealing BR did not touch 1B (which she never did). All 3 Umps run off field and get into the golf cart to get back to the house. Defense is pleading with the umps not to leave. 90 seconds later, they get the UIC who said he understood their position, but since the umps were already gone, there was nothing he could do about it. One of the umps was in the 2006 WCWS.


3. Three of the umps at the main complex were over 70. The oldest was 74. The weather was hot. High 90's in the shade. 4-5 games per day. They were dropping like flies. One ump had diverticulosus and had just been released from the hospital 2 weeks earlier. He was taken from the field and spent 3 days in the ICU. The 74 y/o had to be taken off the field on Tue, Wed and Thu. Finally on Thu they told him he was done for the tourney. Glad nobody died, but DAMN, these guys had no business being there.


4. In the house, during one conversation, at least 25% of the umpires said they would not honor a request for help on a check swing. Un-freakin-believable. Then they also said that if they were the base ump who was asked for help, that they would just automatically say "NO!". Just because they didn'y want to make their partner look bad.

I called 25 games. Worked with many different partners. I have a lot of opinions I which will not bore you with except this one:

5. I don't even want to go into the Sunday assignments. Although I did call games late on Sat. I would probably be banned from this board if I posted my notes. However, I will go on record that diversity supercedes competency. Before you flame me, I am not saying that I felt that I should have been calling on Sunday, but there were many umpires who were better than the ones who got selected, and they were also much better than I.


What is my point in posting this? It is to underscore that there is a critical nationwide shortage of quality umpires. Too many men and women have bitten off more than than they can chew. What I mean by that is calling too may sports and too many different sets of rules.

I hold myself to high standards. I only call girls fastpitch. I only call ASA (exc ept for school ball). What I am about to say may offend some of you, but how can you be competent at the highest levels in ASA, NSA, ISA, Pony, etc. plus do slow pitch, baseball, football, basketball? Nobody can beTHAT good in THAT many things. Especially when ASA pays a whopping $20 per game for a National Championship.

Sorry for the rant. It has been a long week.

Guess West Virginia isn't so bad after all . . .

[SC Ump]

When I first got into ASA, I heard of stories coming back from the nationals in Southern Alabama, where, "we got treated like kings. They rinsed and dried our shirts in between games and would clean our shoes for us."

I also heard stories of a national in Orlando with a new beautiful field, but the building wasn't completed. It was near 100º and the "umpire locker room" was the equipment shed.

With the risk of getting the latter, I have stated that I am not interested in a national whenever folks discuss them with me.

[scottk_61]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

When I first got into ASA, I heard of stories coming back from the nationals in Southern Alabama, where, "we got treated like kings. They rinsed and dried our shirts in between games and would clean our shoes for us."

I also heard stories of a national in Orlando with a new beautiful field, but the building wasn't completed. It was near 100º and the "umpire locker room" was the equipment shed.

With the risk of getting the latter, I have stated that I am not interested in a national whenever folks discuss them with me.

I haver been to Alabama many times, and so far I have never heard of another state that treats the umpires so well.

The Orlando site is another one that I have been to many many times, the umpire room is STILL a metal storage shed though it does have a small amount of air conditioning.

If you get a chance, go to a National and carry water, you learn and get to socialize.
Nothing is ever perfect at a National and remember, we umpires are a NECESSARY EVIL to the coaches and players as well as the TDs. Live with it.
I have been to too many National Council meeting where the opinions are voiced that umpires should be done away with.
Players and coaches don't understand the rules nor do they learn them, ie the rules are unimportant and so must the umpires be.

If you want to work games, learn to blow off the bad stuff and enjoy the good.

This is being said by a world class b***ching machine, so I think I am qualified to comment.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by scottk_61

Nothing is ever perfect at a National and remember, we umpires are a NECESSARY EVIL to the coaches and players as well as the TDs. Live with it.

Of course, that is "NECESSARY EVIL"

[scottk_61]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Of course, that is "NECESSARY EVIL"

Ok, ok, I knew that one was coming.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by scottk_61

If you get a chance, go to a National and carry water, you learn and get to socialize.
Nothing is ever perfect at a National and remember, we umpires are a NECESSARY EVIL to the coaches and players as well as the TDs. Live with it.

I just got back in ASA after several years out. This past week-end, my new local ASA UIC talked to me about my interest in a fast-pitch national next year. I just can't get into it.

"Live with it" implies I don't have a choice. My choice is live without it. I choose not to deal with this lack of respect and appreciation. I'll use my trunk as a dressing room for a double header. You need me for six-plus games a day... I'm not using a milk crate chair and drinking out of a sprinkler hose. I'm sure there are others that consider it worth it.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

2. Sat 9PM game. Loser gets 5th place. Winner guaranteed 4th and still in it.
Game tied 1-1 after 7.
8th - neither team executes
9th - neither team executes
Top 10th - Vis gets 3
Bot 10th - Home gets 3
Top 11 - Vis does not execute
Bot 11 - Home has bases loaded with no out. 3-2 count on B4. Next pitch is Ball 4. BR goes into dugout to put bat away and then comes back out to the celebration at the plate. Defense is appealing BR did not touch 1B (which she never did). All 3 Umps run off field and get into the golf cart to get back to the house. Defense is pleading with the umps not to leave. 90 seconds later, they get the UIC who said he understood their position, but since the umps were already gone, there was nothing he could do about it. One of the umps was in the 2006 WCWS.

I have avoided this thread, because it seemed to me the basic intent was to rant about unqualified umpires, poor tournament management, and so-called pc umpire assignments. I'm actually surprised this has generated so much response, since it seemed to me to be one of those things that should not be dignified with a response.

Sorry, tcannizzo, everything you said may be objectively true, still, there is something unseemly about posting such complaints here, especially those that directly accuse the UIC of favortism. I recall a couple of years ago, an experienced member of the ASA NIF posted considerably milder criticism of a national held in the Atlanta area and had her ASA credentials withdrawn over it.

As I said, it seems to me you are accusing the tournament UIC of favortism and unethical behavior. What would you do with a coach who accused you of such publicly during a game?

As to the play I quoted above, it is not such a mystery and surely does not require Rule 10 to resolve. BR is out for entering the dugout during a live ball. One out. Any other runner who touched her next base cannot be appealed for an out. Any runner who touched home scores, unless at least two other runners did not touch and were properly appealed. Since the umpires left so quickly, no appeal was possible. Since the umpires had left the field, no protest was possible. But, getting into the appeal/protest issue can be completely avoided so long as R1 touched home and either R2 or R3 touched their next base. Run scored, game was over, nothing to appeal or protest that would make any difference.

[greymule]

as for the diversity issue

Let's come out and say it. Diversity of what exactly?

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

As to the play I quoted above, it is not such a mystery and surely does not require Rule 10 to resolve. BR is out for entering the dugout during a live ball. One out. Any other runner who touched her next base cannot be appealed for an out. Any runner who touched home scores, unless at least two other runners did not touch and were properly appealed. Since the umpires left so quickly, no appeal was possible. Since the umpires had left the field, no protest was possible. But, getting into the appeal/protest issue can be completely avoided so long as R1 touched home and either R2 or R3 touched their next base. Run scored, game was over, nothing to appeal or protest that would make any difference.

I completely agree.

BTW, has anyone notice that the game started at 9:00pm and went 11 innings? Do any of you wonder why the umpires left the field?

I'm hoping they knew they had a winner and that the BR not touching first didn't matter, as opposed to just wanting to get the 'H' out of there.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I have avoided this thread, because it seemed to me the basic intent was to rant about unqualified umpires, poor tournament management, and so-called pc umpire assignments. I'm actually surprised this has generated so much response, since it seemed to me to be one of those things that should not be dignified with a response.

Tom, you are correct. If everyone agrees, I will delete the OP with my apologies. Long week, still not totally recovered.

As to the play, I would agree that Rule 10 is not necessary, but the blues should have answered the defense and just say that it didn't matter whether BR touched 1B or not, the game was still over, unless it was the 3rd out, which in this case it was not.

Good thread, I have learned some very important lessons from it. Hopefully others have too.

Peace.

[mcrowder]

Well, they should have stayed, and honored the appeal at first (or more accurately, called BR out for abandonment without needing an appeal), and THEN left. Who knows what ELSE could have gone wrong - and the game wasn't over until the baserunners finished their duties, not just R1 on third.