Im gonna stir the pot a little...
 

I just heard (secondhand) that at a tournament last week, several umpires (mostly from one state) turned back their Sunday assignments because they didnt like the assignment they got, and/or didn't like a change in the pay arrangements.... While I (mostly) sympathize on the pay part..... "not liking" your Sunday assignment is NO reason to go back on your committment to work a tournament. If there are issues...work them out afterwards or don't come back next year. If you promise to work...work..... anything else is dishonorable....

I'm mostly with you on that, Andy. Sunday assignments is no reason to refuse to work; that is unprofessional.

But the pay issue .....I would need more info to have a hard opinion. If the issue is check versus cash, or a few day delay, you need to work. If the TD or umpire coordinator promised one game fee, and, without notice, cut the game fee, then I need to rephrase your statement. If you promise to pay X.....pay X...... anything else is dishonorable.

Why is it "stirring the pot" to state simple, generally accepted concepts?
Even the "pay arrangements" factor, unless a unsuppported reduction (i.e.., below the going rate for no reason) is not an acceptable reason.

Arizona is a little far from here, but near here I'd gladly take their place.

If you call me Andy again...we will have issues...Andy is the tall, ugly WHITE guy from Phoenix..... The issue was pay,,,, one rate was stated (by who I dont know) but when it came time for payment, another was paid....

but even with that..I would NOT refuse to work..i just would not come back again....

It wasnt Arizona. It was a tournament in a rocky mountain state....

I was just using AZ as an example, assuming you weren't talking about a tourney in Maryland. All western states are too far, unless it involves plane fare to visit my sister in Colorado Springs.

My apologies, Darrell. Not paying enough attention to detail while thinking about my response.

Cecil ..........BINGO!! Pretty sure you found the state. Two major tournaments ended there Sunday; and Dave Neidlinger coordinating Aurora would have never allowed that to happen. Had to be Boulder.

OK, ah ha, now I learned something. I figure things out better when I'm not trying. ;)

Besides, I'm not old enough for bingo! :D

I agree - don't like the assignment for the tournament, so what. Work it and then decide whether or not to do it again. If the issue is that the pay was cut, that's a problem - I suspect I'd want more info before saying I'd work or I wouldn't work.

While I don't know either tournament or their organizers, I'd have to agree that it doesn't match Neidlinger's reputation.

WOW - sounds like you guys are in West Virginia!!:D

I was thinkin we could use a good strike..

Then the scab LL baseball umps could come in.. mess it all up and we'd get a raise.

;)

I worked the Fireworks for Dave. That is the best run tournament anywhere. The umpires plan their year around working that tournament.

Now I'm insulted!!! Darrell is the tall, ugly, BLACK guy from Phoenix!

My guess is that it wasn't either of the ASA sanctioned tournies in CO, but the other major organization we deal with here in AZ.

Back to the actual OP ... if umpires were contracted to work a tournament, and tourney officials decided to change the rate of pay contracted, I have NO PROBLEM at all with any umpires who decided to simply go home. Heck, I wouldn't have any problem if the whole lot of them up and left on Saturday when they learned of the issue.

and you would be wrong.....

Hey mcrowder,

I still smile every time I think of that call you made looking at the wrong first base line after getting up from a slip. :) That was the clear winner in the "what was the worst call you ever made" thread.

We have it pretty good here in TN. For one thing it's very rare, even in rec ball, to go with only one umpire. And as far as pay goes...in the baseball tournament I was in we got paid 32.50 per game. We had one game rained out, but the tourney offical paid the umpires $20.00 for that game anyway. I didn't expect that but I know some of the umpires had to drive in from a pretty good distance so I think that's why he paid for part of that game. ...Later, ..Al

NO!!!. Because the tourney officials BROKE the contract with the umpires when they lowered the agreed-upon fee(s).

Bob

I disagree with you Darrell.
I have been at a tournament more than once where the TD decided to change the pay rate.
I have to say that at BB tourneys, we walked. en masse. After we told the coaches and parents why.

Never had a walk out of a softball tourney, but we did tell the coaches and parents why there would be no umpires for future tounaments under that particular TD.
And the umpires stuck to it, together.

I have been at a tourament where the umpires walked out en masse after learning that the UIC for the tounament was cheated out of his pay and had paid us (the umpires) out of his own pocket.

That tounament, by the way, is now non-existant as even the complex won't allow the organizer in.

I normally say that we should honor our committment no matter what, but.....there is a time and a place for a walk out.

I do think if the situation is so bad that you have to walk or decide not to work in the future, let the coaches and parents (if youth) know why it is the way it is.

This is a slippery slope that could damage your reputation for many years or it may solidify your umpire association and its credibility.

In my view, there is no correct answer to this situation.

How bad was the OP case?

Yeah how much was the change? Was the fee droped $5, $10, $15? Personally, I wouldn't quibble much over $5 - but with the price of gas today I wouldn't be judgemental if someone did.

I dont' know. Fifteen games at $5 is a decent amount of money to some folks. Then again, there is the principle of the issue.

How would a tournament director like it if after pool play, the umpires decided the money they were getting was only worth five innings a game and wouldn't work any more innings than that? You don't think the TD would be jumping around, screaming and hollaring about that? You don't think he would be calling a manager's meeting to make them aware of the situation?

There are probably some TDs that would just cancel the tournament.

"Im gonna stir the pot a little..."

And all this time I thought pot was smoked, not stirred.

Bob

Yes, I agree with you (again). If I work 15 games and get paid $30 per game and make $450 that's great! However, if I work 15 games and get paid $25 per game and go home with $375 - I'm still a pretty happy camper. I'm the kind of guy that won't give up $375 just because they cut my pay by $5 per game. Now, if they cut my pay $10 or $15 per game - we might have a different issue. I may be a softball whore, but I DO have principles!:D

OK, here's my 2 cents worth.

I was at the tournament. And first, I was extremely honored to have been selected to this tournament. Now, here is my take.

First of all, I was always told from the time I was selected what the pay would be. And it didn't change between then and when I got my paycheck. I was also very pleasantly surprised when we got a travel "stipend". This, I was not expecting. I have heard of umpires in different associations who had to pay their way to prestigious tournaments, and didn't get any kind of offset for their travel. Now, I do know of umpires working extra games because certain umpires got ill/injured. This actually happened to me. I picked up an extra game, but the umpire I called for, turned around and paid me her game fee, since she was paid for this game. So it all worked out!

Now, I know the schedule for championship Sunday was changed "numerous" times. And yes, I did hear about umpires turning in games. What I never heard, was, why they were turned back in. But, there were some umpires who had airline flights booked for Sunday, so, this may have had something to do with them turning assignments back in. Of all the umpires I talked to who had Sunday games, none of them turned them back in. But then again, I was just happy to get a Sunday assignment.

Now, as for the umpires at this tournament. I had a blast and enjoyed my time their. I met some great umpires and even got to work with some of them also. I would be more than happy to go back.

Serg

The contract is NOWHERE as near as important as the teams and the games.... Finish up..dont go back next year....

If an umpire accepts a tournament assignment, he needs to either be available for the entire tournament, have his assignments in advance so he knows when to book return flights, or communicate clearly and in advance to the UIC / scheduler what is travel arrangements are. JMO.

I agree with you on this but the nature of tournaments is that often they run behind and then that cushion of time you have given yourself untiil your flight is gone.
There was a really large tounament here in FL that used to be ASA that always ended up going behind schedule in spite of drop dead time limits.
Twice a year, there would end up being umpires scheduled for the final day who had to give back their games due to this problem.
Weather was often a problem, injuries, and waiting on the fields to be reworked all contributed to the problem.

Sometimes, it happens and a good UIC and TD can work with it.

I agree. I didn't mean for my comment to cover unforseen circumstances.