The hazards of One-Man
 

Well last week I got myself stuck not by something that I did, but by something the pitcher did after the ball was hit. Again SP, one man system. R1 on 1B, 1 out. Batter hits ball to SS, I anticipate that we will have a close play with a good turn so I get position 1B side of rubber 2/3 the way up the line.

Well the SS makes a slight boot gets it and flips to 2nd for what will be a close play now, and the pitcher was heading toward 2nd base for some unknown reason and is now between me and the play. 2B gets ball I cant see the play, so I give a safe signal, 2b throws to 1B and I ring the out.

Coach says "Why did you call safe at 2nd?"

My response "Coach, your pitcher screened me. I can not call an out that I didnt see."

Coach says "You dont have to call a safe do you?"

Me again: "I cant call an out I dont see"

Coach: "Well get out there for the play next time"

Me: I just walked back to the plate thinking, why was your pitcher going to 2B in the first place.

Sometimes it just doesnt matter that you hustle and get to where you should be, the variables sometimes just cant be figured in..........

ACK

I have no problem with your call. Nor do I have a problem telling the coach HIS player caused the problem.

I also have no problem asking the coach what year he attended the state umpiring school if they have the balls to question my positioning :)

I'll remember that one, because they always question your position/hustle when the call goes against them. Even when the say "good hustle, blue" on the previous play.

Hmm .. well we've had the round of kudos and back slaps.. so whats to be learned or discussed here?

We all blow em sometimes.. and when that happens, kudo's are nice - but thats not a good learning tool.. better to beat yourself up a little and try to learn from it IMO..

So.. what we have in REALITY is a play where EVERYONE saw the out but you... you in fact did blow a call and robbed the Def of a double play by blaming a fielder for "screening you" (even if true) - so where do we go from here?

A closer trail of the runner, as opposed to the angle into the field - perhaps?

Recognizing the pitcher is moving earlier than you did so either stop moving or side step to be able to see the play enough to make the easy call at 2b..

On a double play my main concern is 1B - I get to where im at least in good enough spot to give a close vicinity at 2b but best possible position for the 1b call.

I'm not thrashing you, cuz i'm sure we've all been there - but you posted the situation so a better discussion other than "great job at blowing that one" could be had.

What's that I smell?

Youre not still sore I bested you and WMB, even when you went running to some big wigs to get an interpretation, are you?

Let it go man, grudges can really weigh on you. Each post is a "new game".

Dont worry mike, I'm still impressed you were able to rise through the ranks of 12 umpires in your little state AND recommend yourself to enough SP nationals to get elite status.. lets bury the hatchet and be friends please :)

I could have sworn I saw a little short green guy go running though here.

Did anybody else see it?:rolleyes:

Yes almost 3 years on this board, more posts than you, a local UIC .. and I'm a troll :rolleyes:

Gimme a break scott.

I may not tow the line, which is why I can be right and stick to my guns when the "best" are saying something different, or follow certain "prestigious" posters around like their the 2nd coming of umpiring.. but I'm certainly no troll.

If it walks like, talks like, posts like, it probably is:(

Mike, youre a knowledgeable guy.. but really are too easily offended when someone is willing to call you out when you are easily shown to be incorrect..

Better would be to admit when youre wrong and learn from it as I do.

Like today for example, which obviously has your undies bunched.

Maybe you could explain HOW ON EARTH you believe the proper mechanic on a infield liner possible trap/catch with runners frozen, is for the PU to sit there like the umpire in the candy commercial and make no call.. then defer to the BU, as an after thought, after the runners leave due to the non call..

I for one would love to hear it.

I suppose when one puts stuff out like that that most on the boards accept from you without question, when another umpire who can read is willing to have independent thought and say "BS" .. it can be rather irritating...

Easier to label them a troll than try to support the unsupportable position.

"Yes almost 3 years on this board, more posts than you, a local UIC .. and I'm a troll"


Where are you a UIC....who CARES how many posts you have, and has the situation outlined ever happened to you?

Larry,

Are you spreading that special filter to other board members?

No, Mike. I keep that for special occasions and ONLY use it for you. I am a one umpire man!;)

1. Im currently deputy UIC for motherlode ASA in CA, consisting of two counties and will take over as UIC when the season starts next year.. so effectively the current UIC (damn good guy with 50 years served) is "lame duck" and current UIC for this areas Amer Legion BB. I posted on this board when I taught my first ump classes this year.. didnt go well.. but I know what I need to do to make it better next year. So this is not new news.
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2. Probably no one.. but pretending I'm some newbie troll is lame diversion when one can't support their positions.

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3. I've had all kinds of crappy stuff happen like the above, especially in one man, which I've done plenty of. I dont recall an instance exactly like above.. but certainly WORSE.. the thing to do is discuss positioning or other things for next time IMO. I've blown many calls.. I try to learn from them, sometimes think about them for days - the above posted scenario is a blown call, plain and simple, the OP posted it because it bugged him, so better is to discuss how to fix it next time..

Off to work :(

Please refresh my failing memory and point me to that thread, Wade. Not sure I remember that, and I might learn from it, as well; not that often both Mike and WMB are both wrong.

Hey guys....... I just thought I would post this scenario as it happened. Did I learn anything? Yes, stuff happens and there are variables out there you just never expect. I also learned this, it was the only time I have made that call in 15+ years of doing games. I learned that even someone with a great deal of experience is going to get screened, and while everyone in the whole world could see it I didnt.

I also learned that apparently there is some history here between other posters that I was unaware of..................

Have a great day

WHEW! I am soooo glad that I'm not the only one that feels a cold chill running through the room from time to time. I'm also relieved to know that I'm not the only one that has not freakin' clue why certain people are pissed at other certain people. Maybe I need to get a new filter . . .:)

By definition, a troll is someone who posts merely for the reaction. It has nothing to do with newbeeness.

If the shoe fits...

Actually, Little Green Man, I have been around since the inception of Brad's site. I changed my ID a few years back for convience.
As for counting posts, whoop didley doo! I am resonably sure that if we counted them all, I would be far ahead of you.

Being verbose doesn't make you more intelligent, just loud.

And as for being a local UIC, so what?
Been there done that many times, been an ASA association UIC (as an interim) when I was asked.
Lets see if we need to measure Johnson's here,

Worked in excess of 30 ASA Nationals,
about 8, maybe 9 ISA nationals back before they got stupid.
I am a Gold Medal umpire,
an ELite in SP and eligible as an Elite in MP and FP.
Am eligible to be ISF but due to health reasons didn't follow though even though I have been to the school.
I have worked State High school finals in 4 states.
Worked D1, 2 and NAIA ball.
Had the priveledge of working games for Olympic Developmental teams of various nations.
Have had the priveldge of working all levels of SP and FP as well as the Men's Major Modified.
Ummmm, I can even keep the count without the clicker thingy!!!!!!!!!!!

Wheee, so, I guess I should bow to your superior wisdom that isn't up to snuff and is out of step with the ruling bodies of the ASA code.

Who is your Commisioner and lets see what he thinks of your posting behavior?

And as for slamming Mike, he is a superior umpire that I have had the privelede to know online for many years. He took over an organization that had been neglected and has done a fantastic job. He has superior skills on the field and off. I have had the opportunity to meet him in purpose and other than him being a yankee (inside joke here.:D ) he is one he** of an individual.

So far, all that I see out of you is blowing your own horn (which won't do anything other than get you chapped lips) and arguing your position to the point of being obnoxious.

When you get elected to the NUS or some other noteworthy position, let me know, will you?

I apologize to the board members for wasting your bandwidth with this but felt it needed to be said.

If I have offended anyone else, I apologize

Funny you should ask that, Scott. His Commissioner, I believe, is Matt Pfeifer, who worked the 18 Gold National with us in Marietta in 2004.

I worked with Matt in one of his rare SP appearances at the 1999 Men's Major Church NC in Mobile, AL. Six teams, seven umpires, no crap and some pretty damn good ball. Now, there's a place where they take care of the umpires. Party before the tournament, party after the tournament, catch a couple games at Aaron Stadium. Couldn't buy a damn thing, they provided it all.

Matt's a nice guy. I see him every other Feb and every November. Cannot wait for Colorado Springs, now.

oh boy..

Well you go sniveling to matt, I'll just tell him you called me a little green man
:rolleyes:

You guys really need to grow up..

There go sniveling to Matt that I told you to grow up for threatening to "tell on me"

lol

too lame.

Show him/tell him whatever you want.

Pathetic.

Thats not why I asked where you were UIC...It just seems that in the last week or so..your posts have been a little more arrogant and self promoting than in the past. Im NOT saying YOU are.... but I'm not the only one to raise my eyebrows at some of your posts...I was curious if you local UIC thing was a recent promotion....maybe that would explain it a little....if its not...maybe a bad week? Either way..maybe we need to back off bashing posters and remember that this is a forum to trade ideas and help younger umpires....not blare out our credentials or belittle an umpire who posts a GREAT post with a GREAT question.


You also never answered one of my questions.... have you ever been screened by a player?

If not, the only non-newbie who hasn't been.

im not intentionally being "self promoting" - because im certainly not much.. but just try to weather the "green man" "what smells" barage from tweedle dee and tweedle dum by pointing out im no noob. Now I gotta weather the "I'm gonna tell on you" barage :rolleyes: -- thats just too funny.. lame but funny.

Of course I've been screened.. screened by players .. catchers.. screened by having sweat laced with sun block go into my eyes.. sand from catchers mit go into my eyes.. etc etc etc

Well, "tweedle dee", myself, and I'm sure others were just taken aback by the harshness of your repsonse to that post...... weve all been screened.... he handled it as best as he could..and I thought you were a little too hard on him because of it....especially since its a SERIOUS hazard of only having one set of eyes on the field.

I dont think anyone wants to tell on you....I for one was just curious as to where you were from and what association you were with. (ASA, or some other irrelevant organization..:D )

Actually, no history at all which is what makes it strange.

So then whats the problem mike?

I was goofin on you with the SP comments, which I've always done.. Ive told you on a few occassions that the biggest problem a SP umpire has is making sure the play doesnt cause you to drop your hot dog and you always took it properly.. this time I got the whole "I dont know if I'd want you on the field.. you have disdain for this game" BS.. during the season I live and breath this stuff, including goofing around on this MB .. so there is obviously no disdain.

Just because I goof on SP, SP isnt really my game - doesnt mean anything.. I'm working it this year because I'll be scheduling it and teaching it next year so I need to know it.. doesnt mean I need to love it.. know what I mean vern?

You jumped to BS Conclusions and expected me to roll over, then did the troll crap and the smell crap.. So yeah I turn a little harsh.

Well for what its worth, and no I'm not apologizing because I give a crap if you go whining to Matt - I greatly respect your knowledge, learned a lot from you, and do apoligize if I'm seemed a little over-the top.

I dont want to have a war on this board but am somehow trapped into one.. so hopefully it can go away.. but if not, and apoligies are not acceptend, then I'll continue to defend myself, with plenty of offense mixed into that defense.

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Please refresh my failing memory and point me to that thread, Wade. Not sure I remember that, and I might learn from it, as well; not that often both Mike and WMB are both wrong.

I'll have to dig it up.. shoulda framed it :)

I'll have two Mike's heads on my mantle if he dares to try to support his position on the "slow call" thread on ezteams ;)

(dont be offended by that mike, just goofin around).

Again to anyone I've offended, I'll try to tone it down .. no big deal.. I'm sure if we were on the field we'd work together great - sometimes the written post comes off harsher than it was intended.

I've had worse that this OP in one man...

1. I've taken a foul ball so hard to the mask I literally didnt know if the batter even swung and called it a ball.. thinking it musta been high, it hit me in the mask..

2. I've had a catcher intentionally screen her dropped ball on a play at home then quick release to 2nd... she got the out.. everyone else saw the catcher had dropped the ball.

3.. and the worse i've ever had, which is seered.. seered into my memory like a vietnam river boat trip.. on a steal at second, I popped out to watch the play and the batter took a practice swing smacking me straight into the face extremely hard.. by some grace of God, i had not removed my face mask.. saving me from who knows what..

Everyone gets screen.. the point is to try to learn from it. Each of those I learned from especially 2 & 3...

Trailing the BR as opposed to moving in is the solution in this OP's case IMo.. I've found it better position for the play.

That was my point, my unwarranted harshness aside.

Hey now that I review the thread, you came in at the end of it..

In anycase.. this was when i think I became a "troll" in mikes eyes, when I faced down him AND wmb and when he went to big wigs... I was right.

Furthermore, my argument might result in a clarification in the rule book.. which would make me proud.

http://forum.officiating.com/showthr...t=25010&page=4

The ruling

http://forum.officiating.com/showthread.php?t=25880

I didnt post much after that.. so its probably been eating away at him.. not sure.

In anycase, I apoligized so hopefully all is well now.

Edited to fix ruling link .. opps..

I was screened by a cat when copy pasting ;)

Personally, I think it comes more from your attitude as expressed in your own words.

You apologize, but then continue to characterize what you did in a discussion about whether or not the out on the BR at 1B is technically a force out in terms such as "faced down" someone.

And then crow endlessly about it, and further, assume that everyone else is as small minded as you apparently are and that everyone else lets these discussions "eat away" at them the same way you let them inflate your view of yourself (as if that was possible for you to have a more inflated view of yourself).

IOW, it is your attidute, not your correctness, that is the reason you get the responses you get. However, since trolls generally enjoy seeing the responses they can stir up, I don't expect you to change one whit.

Actually, I don't believe either interpretation was endorsed. As noted in my post, it was discussed and the conclusion was that the written rules did not reflect what Craig believes what was meant.

Anyone who hasn't heard CC speak, he is a proponent of following the rule as written in the book or change the rule.

Hence, my proposal for a rule change which would allow for the defined difference between "preventing" the ball from being hit and simple CO.

If you believe this upset me, you really have no idea what I'm about as it relates to ASA softball.

HA!

In most debates, no matter how degrading mike is when illustrating a point, even when he is wrong according to how Craig (and myself) understands intent of a rule.. ole Irish usually can take as good as he gives..

This time, in addition to degrading me, you add to it by playing the "wahh hes a troll, he smells, i'm telling his commish" card.

This is laughable and absurd.

Are you 12 dakota?

Go kick rocks dakota.. i tire of your school yard games..

Whats next? Trying to take my lunch money?

Youre a piece of work...

Go tell a commish that you and STATE UIC told me I smell and am a little green man (bwhahaha, this is hard to type) and I hurted your feewings.

All because I said Local League SP players are fat beer breath guys..

OMG this is a riot.

Get over yourself, really.

Nevermind, this has to be a joke, you two are goofing on me.

No body in positions you two hold could be acting so lame.

Nothing in the above post, with the exception of me pointing out you act like a troll (which the above post again confirms) is a response to anything I posted.You must have me confused with someone else. The only position I hold wrt softball is as an umpire. You, on the other hand, seem to be full of the position you hold. Or full of something, anyway. Go prance and preen in front of your SoCal umpires. I'll bet they are impressed, too.

What position do I hold? DEPUTY to a UIC is an area smaller than delaware (in CA thats pretty hard to do) and UIC of friggin Amer Leg baseball in this area which consists of begging BASEBALL umpires, most of them LLers.. to work games (Can you imagine that pain?).. I dont even post on the BB board and not only because Tim C is more insufferable than you are.. This is hardly something to brag about and was meant to fend off your attacks that you continue with the troll stuff. NOT BRAG. Didnt work.. it just gave you something more for you to dance around holding your pig tails and repeating over and over.. so was an error in judgement on my part.

Please continue your "hes a troll neener neener neener stuff" there susie.. its kinda funny.

OK guys ----
 

Sniping over.... I dont care about past conversations or other threads. What I do care about is this. This is really and I mean this truthfully the first time I have been screened on a play at 2nd in 10 years at least. One of the things that I have done over the last few years is rather than moving down the 1st base side I get further toward 3b side giving me a better angle at both bases. I saw the pitcher moving and also noted a closer play was at hand so I went on 1b side instead, just so I could avoid a potential screen.

Anyway, when you all work one man and that is all that I typically get to do, where do you prefer to call a potential DP. I am again doing SP mens B,C,D ball primarily. So this isnt a sitch where I have 12 year old girls trotting to 1st.

By the way, I do apprectiate some of the insights on mechanics I have seen in other threads. I have been doing this umpire thing since 87. All of it has been USSSA SP. Took a bit of time off, but I love doing it.

Assuming throw from 2B (99% of the time), around 2:30-3 o'clock position, maybe 10 feet off the pitcher's plate. Obviously, this is just a target, you cannot just go to a spot and work, but you know that.

Sometime players do goofy things. In your case, the pitcher was moving to a position which served no purpose in the play. One umpire, six umpires, it doesn't make any difference, it's still possible to be blocked out on a DMF.

wade, your track record on this board speaks for itself.

Enough, Already
 

What I said about "must slide" also applies to this personal insult fest, just in case someone is trying to learn about mechanics. :(