here we go

alphaump · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 29, 2006, 12:24pm

Sitch; runners on 1st and 3rd, 2 outs, bottom of last inning, batting team down 1 run - batter hits home run, runner on 3rd scores, as batter and runner on 1st are rounding bases, they high five each other and in the excitement of the imminent win, the batter touches home first - the opposing team appeals - whats the call?
I witness this and it toke over 2 hours for the officials to make a call - they called the batter out, scored the runner on 1st and went to extra innings.
This is asa men only.

chicago11 · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 29, 2006, 12:32pm

I think you meant scored the runner from 3rd. In any case, correct call, tie game..next inning.

Dakota · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 29, 2006, 12:36pm

This was not an appeal play. Maybe you mean protest.

Why did it take 2 hours to make the call?

Waiting on express delivery of the rule book?

Waiting on official protest procedures?

Knew what the call was going to be, so waited on the police to arrive?

alphaump · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 29, 2006, 12:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicago11

I think you meant scored the runner from 3rd. In any case, correct call, tie game..next inning.

yep, my bad

alphaump · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 29, 2006, 12:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota

This was not an appeal play. Maybe you mean protest.

Why did it take 2 hours to make the call?

Waiting on express delivery of the rule book?

Waiting on official protest procedures?

Knew what the call was going to be, so waited on the police to arrive?

Stand corrected again, protest, and I was a spectator and have no idea why it took soooo long. Maybe because they wanted to be sure of the call, cuz it was a tourney game. Seemed like a no brainer to me.

baldgriff · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 29, 2006, 12:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphaump

Sitch; runners on 1st and 3rd, 2 outs, bottom of last inning, batting team down 1 run - batter hits home run, runner on 3rd scores, as batter and runner on 1st are rounding bases, they high five each other and in the excitement of the imminent win, the batter touches home first - the opposing team appeals - whats the call?
I witness this and it toke over 2 hours for the officials to make a call - they called the batter out, scored the runner on 1st and went to extra innings.
This is asa men only.

Forgive me if I am reading this wrong
Down 1 run. The runner at 3rd scored for a run to tie.

Wouldnt the runner from 1st that got passed also score and be the 2nd run?

I guess I am a bit confused on the sitch.

Dakota · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 29, 2006, 01:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by baldgriff

Forgive me if I am reading this wrong
Down 1 run. The runner at 3rd scored for a run to tie.

Wouldnt the runner from 1st that got passed also score and be the 2nd run?

I guess I am a bit confused on the sitch.

Third out as soon as the runner passed.

Justme · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 29, 2006, 01:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by baldgriff

Forgive me if I am reading this wrong
Down 1 run. The runner at 3rd scored for a run to tie.

Wouldnt the runner from 1st that got passed also score and be the 2nd run?

I guess I am a bit confused on the sitch.

The BR passed the leading runner from 1B & touched HP before the runner from 1B. That's an out, the 3rd out.

tzme415 · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 29, 2006, 01:14pm

Correct call on protest as long as this wasn't Men's Class A Slow Pitch. In which case the bases do not need to be run and no appeals can be made.

Ran.D · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 29, 2006, 01:24pm

In our local slowpitch league, rule is the batter has to only touch first on a ball over the fence. But then, we also have screens in front of the pitchers

IRISHMAFIA · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 29, 2006, 01:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ran.D

In our local slowpitch league, rule is the batter has to only touch first on a ball over the fence. But then, we also have screens in front of the pitchers

Now that is a stupid rule. Either touch the bases or don't touch them. It's ludicrous to touch one then sit down..

IRISHMAFIA · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 29, 2006, 02:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphaump

Sitch; runners on 1st and 3rd, 2 outs, bottom of last inning, batting team down 1 run - batter hits home run, runner on 3rd scores, as batter and runner on 1st are rounding bases, they high five each other and in the excitement of the imminent win, the batter touches home first - the opposing team appeals - whats the call?
I witness this and it toke over 2 hours for the officials to make a call - they called the batter out, scored the runner on 1st and went to extra innings.
This is asa men only.

Speaking ASA

#1. This is a "missed base appeal". The only way it could be a protest is if the umpire made an inappropriate ruling. This is not mentioned in the scenario.

#2. The post also doesn't state that R3 passed R2, just that he scored prior to R2. Remember, to pass a runner, the entire body must be completely pass the preceding runner. If R3 DID pass R2, then the out call, and tied game, would be correct.

#3. Assuming R3 did not pass R2, only one run scores. R2 cannot return to touch as missed base once a succeeding runner has scored. (8.3.G; POE 1.D.2)

Dakota · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 29, 2006, 02:27pm

I took the OP to be describing a passed runner scenario. You're right it would be a missed base appeal if either

a) R2 missed the base, BR touched, and then R2 touched, or
b) While jumping around, BR happened to touch the plate first but did not actually pass R2.

I can see how either of those could be read into the OPs description.

Which was it, alphaump?

mcrowder · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 29, 2006, 02:47pm

And this is why it took 2 hours. Unless BR COMPLETELY passed R2, he's not out for passing. So then the question becomes - if BR didn't actually pass R2, what rule was broken when BR touched home slightly before R2. If R2 didn't actually miss the base, but just happened to touch it after BR.

Picture them side by side - if R2 didn't actually go PAST the plate, then did he "miss" it? If this is not a pass, BR is not out. So what makes R2's run not count? Honestly, I don't believe this is covered in the rules. If you don't have a pass, and you don't have an actual missed base, where does it actually state BR cannot score before R2? Intuitively, it makes sense that BR can't score before R2, but by what RULE do we call anyone out here?

Initially, I thought this to be a no-brainer too ... but after realizing we don't actually have a PASSED runner (which requires no appeal, and is simply an out right at that instant, no run would have ever scored in that case), I started digging into the rules. I see no actual rule broken if R2 didn't miss and pass the base before BR touched home.

So yeah - I can see why this took 2 hours, and I'm no longer sure they got it right, unless they used Rule 10 (which wouldn't have taken 2 hours either).

alphaump · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 29, 2006, 03:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota

b) While jumping around, BR happened to touch the plate first but did not actually pass R2.

Which was it, alphaump?

B is correct.