Rule on this one.

greymule · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 01:37pm

Bases loaded, 2 out.

BR hits a ball off the fence, misses 1B, and proceeds around the bases. With the ball still being kicked around in the outfield, BR, though he had a clear path to home plate, deliberately crashes F2, knocking him 15 feet, and then touches the plate.

You call BR out for the deliberate USC crash and eject him.

The defense then appeals BR's miss of 1B.

What would your ruling be?

baldgriff · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 01:40pm

I dont believe you have another out, however, the defense did just save giving up 4 runs.

Rattlehead · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 02:06pm

ring up the BR out for missing 1b on appeal, no runs score. BR is still watching the rest of the game(maybe a few more) from the parking lot.

fastpitch · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by baldgriff

I dont believe you have another out, however, the defense did just save giving up 4 runs.

4 or 3 - says he was ejected before touching the plate?

IRISHMAFIA · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 02:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastpitch

4 or 3 - says he was ejected before touching the plate?

You don't eject a player until the play is complete.

fastpitch · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 02:27pm

so the run counts even though he was ejected - given no appeal is made of missing 1B?

Rattlehead · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 02:48pm

If there was no appeal at 1B then act that he commited was prior to him touching the plate. He would be out and ejected due to USC. Three runs would score.

Dakota · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 03:03pm

My guess is greymule is poking at the issue of 4th out appeal only on a runner who has scored.

In the situation, once the play is complete, the umpire will most likely eject the BR. The umpire can also declare the BR out and nullify the run scored by the BR (ASA case play 10.8-1) for flagrant misconduct.

So, suppose the umpire does this. Now, the BR has no longer scored. Hence, the 4th out appeal may not be honored by rule.

I'd honor it anyway under the circumstances. I'd use 10-1-L to reverse the OUT call on the BR (but not the ejection), and then enforce the 4th out appeal. No runs score.

baldgriff · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 03:10pm

My take on this one is this: The defense should not be penalized for an act of the offending offfensive player. The spirit of the rule is to allow the defense to appeal the missed base thereby nullifying the runs.

The player is ejected when the play is over and not before. If you called the out and then ejected him - then he doesnt score and its 3 runs saved on the appeal. I wouldnt even play a game of semantics on this one.

greymule · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 03:17pm

I'd use 10-1-L to reverse the OUT call on the BR.

Clever way out. I'd have to revise the OP to say that after creaming F2, BR never does touch the plate but gives F2 a couple of kicks in the ribs before proceeding to the dugout. Then the appeal at 1B.

Dakota · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 03:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by greymule

I'd use 10-1-L to reverse the OUT call on the BR.

Clever way out. I'd have to revise the OP to say that after creaming F2, BR never does touch the plate but gives F2 a couple of kicks in the ribs before proceeding to the dugout. Then the appeal at 1B.

He doesn't have to go to all that trouble. If he merely abandones his attempt to advance and proceeds directly to the dugout, he's out and never scored.

DSUAUmpire · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 07:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by greymule

Bases loaded, 2 out.

BR hits a ball off the fence, misses 1B, and proceeds around the bases. With the ball still being kicked around in the outfield, BR, though he had a clear path to home plate, deliberately crashes F2, knocking him 15 feet, and then touches the plate.

You call BR out for the deliberate USC crash and eject him.

The defense then appeals BR's miss of 1B.

What would your ruling be?

Maybe I am missing something, but by what rule would you call the BR out? F2 did not have the ball. I agree that he would be ejected for USC, but the out would be on the appeal at first, he was never tagged out at home.

blu_bawls · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 09:32pm

There is no force out at first nullifying the runs. Any baserunner who crossed the plate before the appeal or the out/ejection would score and the the run would stay on the books.

Once a runner has crossed a base he is assumed to have touched that base until an appeal is made.

2 outs with R1 on 3rd, B2 hits a fast grounder to right field. B2 crosses the base (but does not touch the orange part of the bag) before the throw from right field reaches F3 you MUST call B2 safe. During this time R1 scores.

As B2 walks back to first base, she is tagged by the first baseman who appeals she didn't touch the base. Run scores and the inning counts.

Dakota · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 11:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSUAUmpire

Maybe I am missing something, but by what rule would you call the BR out? F2 did not have the ball. I agree that he would be ejected for USC, but the out would be on the appeal at first, he was never tagged out at home.

Speaking ASA, Case Play 10.8-1. Runner can be declared out for flagrant misconduct.

IRISHMAFIA · #15 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 17, 2006, 07:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu_bawls

2 outs with R1 on 3rd, B2 hits a fast grounder to right field. B2 crosses the base (but does not touch the orange part of the bag) before the throw from right field reaches F3 you MUST call B2 safe. During this time R1 scores.

As B2 walks back to first base, she is tagged by the first baseman who appeals she didn't touch the base. Run scores and the inning counts.

Speaking ASA

That cannot be right. No runs can score if the third out is a result of the BR not reaching 1B safely (5.5.B.1, CB 5.5-8, 5.5-9 & 5.5-10)