Rule on this one.

greymule · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 01:37pm

Bases loaded, 2 out.

BR hits a ball off the fence, misses 1B, and proceeds around the bases. With the ball still being kicked around in the outfield, BR, though he had a clear path to home plate, deliberately crashes F2, knocking him 15 feet, and then touches the plate.

You call BR out for the deliberate USC crash and eject him.

The defense then appeals BR's miss of 1B.

What would your ruling be?

baldgriff · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 01:40pm

I dont believe you have another out, however, the defense did just save giving up 4 runs.

Rattlehead · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 02:06pm

ring up the BR out for missing 1b on appeal, no runs score. BR is still watching the rest of the game(maybe a few more) from the parking lot.

fastpitch · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by baldgriff

I dont believe you have another out, however, the defense did just save giving up 4 runs.

4 or 3 - says he was ejected before touching the plate?

IRISHMAFIA · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 02:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastpitch

4 or 3 - says he was ejected before touching the plate?

You don't eject a player until the play is complete.

fastpitch · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 02:27pm

so the run counts even though he was ejected - given no appeal is made of missing 1B?

Rattlehead · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 02:48pm

If there was no appeal at 1B then act that he commited was prior to him touching the plate. He would be out and ejected due to USC. Three runs would score.

DSUAUmpire · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 07:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by greymule

Bases loaded, 2 out.

BR hits a ball off the fence, misses 1B, and proceeds around the bases. With the ball still being kicked around in the outfield, BR, though he had a clear path to home plate, deliberately crashes F2, knocking him 15 feet, and then touches the plate.

You call BR out for the deliberate USC crash and eject him.

The defense then appeals BR's miss of 1B.

What would your ruling be?

Maybe I am missing something, but by what rule would you call the BR out? F2 did not have the ball. I agree that he would be ejected for USC, but the out would be on the appeal at first, he was never tagged out at home.

blu_bawls · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 16, 2006, 09:32pm

There is no force out at first nullifying the runs. Any baserunner who crossed the plate before the appeal or the out/ejection would score and the the run would stay on the books.

Once a runner has crossed a base he is assumed to have touched that base until an appeal is made.

2 outs with R1 on 3rd, B2 hits a fast grounder to right field. B2 crosses the base (but does not touch the orange part of the bag) before the throw from right field reaches F3 you MUST call B2 safe. During this time R1 scores.

As B2 walks back to first base, she is tagged by the first baseman who appeals she didn't touch the base. Run scores and the inning counts.

IRISHMAFIA · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 17, 2006, 07:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu_bawls

2 outs with R1 on 3rd, B2 hits a fast grounder to right field. B2 crosses the base (but does not touch the orange part of the bag) before the throw from right field reaches F3 you MUST call B2 safe. During this time R1 scores.

As B2 walks back to first base, she is tagged by the first baseman who appeals she didn't touch the base. Run scores and the inning counts.

Speaking ASA

That cannot be right. No runs can score if the third out is a result of the BR not reaching 1B safely (5.5.B.1, CB 5.5-8, 5.5-9 & 5.5-10)

DSUAUmpire · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 17, 2006, 08:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

That cannot be right. No runs can score if the third out is a result of the BR not reaching 1B safely (5.5.B.1, CB 5.5-8, 5.5-9 & 5.5-10)

Agree, this out would be the result of a force no runs.
Another example BR reaches 1st, steps of the base towards home, ball is thrown to F3 who steps on the base. force is re-instated and BR is out.

blu_bawls · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 17, 2006, 09:29am

The batter got to first base safely and passed the base. Once a better has passed a base he/she is assumed to have touched it and can only be called out on an appeal. Any runs scored prior to the appeal stand.

blu_bawls · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 17, 2006, 12:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

That cannot be right. No runs can score if the third out is a result of the BR not reaching 1B safely (5.5.B.1, CB 5.5-8, 5.5-9 & 5.5-10)

Reaching and touching the base are two different things.

Once the batter crossed first and went to second he has already reached first base. Touching it only matters if they appeal it. A runner can hit a home run a not touch any base and the run counts until someone appeals that the batter missed a base.

The fourth out advantage gives the defense the opportunity to take an out on appeal that would benefit them.

If both 1R on Second and R2 on third tag up and leave early on a second out catch to the outfield the defense can appeal R1 leaving early and get the third out but then can appeal R2 leaving early and ge tthat call.

IRISHMAFIA · #14 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 17, 2006, 01:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu_bawls

Reaching and touching the base are two different things.

Once the batter crossed first and went to second he has already reached first base. Touching it only matters if they appeal it. A runner can hit a home run a not touch any base and the run counts until someone appeals that the batter missed a base.

So far, you are proving my point.

Quote:

The fourth out advantage gives the defense the opportunity to take an out on appeal that would benefit them.

NOT DISCUSSING A FOURTH OUT APPEAL HERE!

We are discussing your thread-hijacking scenario of:

2 outs with R1 on 3rd, B2 hits a fast grounder to right field. B2 crosses the base (but does not touch the orange part of the bag) before the throw from right field reaches F3 you MUST call B2 safe. During this time R1 scores.

As B2 walks back to first base, she is tagged by the first baseman who appeals she didn't touch the base. Run scores and the inning counts.

The runner isn't required to touch the orange part of the base unless there is a play when approaching the base, so if there is an appeal as you are suggesting, it must be for missing 1B. This appeal is NOT a timing play and any runs would not count, citations still apply.

Quote:

If both 1R on Second and R2 on third tag up and leave early on a second out catch to the outfield the defense can appeal R1 leaving early and get the third out but then can appeal R2 leaving early and ge tthat call.

You just moved to a third scenario which has nothing to do with a force out.

Obviously, your mind is set, so I'm not going to waste any more time on this one.

bluezebra · #15 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 18, 2006, 07:43pm

"...BR, though he had a clear path to home plate, deliberately crashes F2, knocking him 15 feet..."

If I'm the Varsity football head coach, I've got me a new blocking back.

Bob