Out at first ?

wargy · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 12, 2001, 10:03pm

This occurred recently at a men's slowpitch game. Batter hits a grounder towards third, whom fields the ball and throws to first. The runner arrives about the same time as the ball. The throw was in the dirt and first baseman never makes the catch but the ball drops to his feet so there wasn't an overthrow. The runner steps on the base and continues a few strides, definitely, outside the baseline. He stops after the third or forth step and turns to see where the ball went, since he new the ball was in the ground. No move was taken towards second, since the first thing he sees is the first baseman picking up the ball. The umpire waited for the first baseman to pick up the ball and watched to see if he would tag the runner or first base.

My question for this situation is. Is the act of stopping after a few strides and looking for where the ball went enough to be construed as an attempt towards advancing to second? The umpire made it seem as it would.

mick · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 12, 2001, 10:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by wargy

My question for this situation is. Is the act of stopping after a few strides and looking for where the ball went enough to be construed as an attempt towards advancing to second? The umpire made it seem as it would.

wargy,
This is a judgement thing.
If this happened in my game, any movement toward second could trigger my interest and make the runner unprotected.
Merely turning to find the ball would not put the runner at risk in my mind.
mick

Gulf Coast Blue · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 12, 2001, 10:24pm

wargy.........

The umpire must judge if the batter/runner (BR) made an attempt to advance to 2nd......if in the umpires judgement the runner DID attempt to advance........the BR is in jeopardy to be put out if tagged before returning to 1st.

The turn by the BR after over-running first may be to the left or the right......BUT if they make an attempt or feint towards 2nd.....they are in jeopardy to be put out on an appeal (tag)

Joel

whiskers_ump · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 12, 2001, 10:41pm

wargy,

Joel, and mick right, judgement call. If you as
umpire see runner making effort for second, and a
fient is considered attempt, runner in jeopardy for
appeal tag play

Steve M · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 15, 2001, 06:18pm

This being a judgement call & all, I've started doing this over the past few years. When I judge a runner to have made the attempt toward second, I will point at the runner and say "That's an attempt." I've found that just removes all doubt from everyone. 'Course, it does prevent the runner who made the attempt (saw he wouldn't make it) from just cooly & causually strolling back to first as if he hadn't made the attempt. As to Wargy's play & question - I agree with all & might even have worded a reply similar to Mick's. But since it's already been said, I respond with "Yeah, what they said."

mick · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Jul 15, 2001, 09:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve M
..., I will point at the runner and say "That's an attempt."

Steve M.
I don't think I would say anything to "tip off" the defense and end up giving them a small advantage, because, then, if I miss saying it at another time, I may have unwittingly tipped the scales.
mick

Steve M · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 16, 2001, 02:46pm

Mick,
I don't see this as giving the defense an advantage or even as tipping the off. If anything, I'm probably giving the offense an advantage (big stretch for that) by saying I saw that attempt. Again, it just removes all doubt from anyone's mind and lets the players know that I'm on top of the play. If I forget, I'm going to assume that the defense will think "He didn't see that so there's no point in making a play." The team that really gets the advantage on this is ours - the umps. And'm all for us having every possible advantage.

whiskers_ump · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 16, 2001, 07:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve M
Mick,
I don't see this as giving the defense an advantage or even as tipping the off. If anything, I'm probably giving the offense an advantage (big stretch for that) by saying I saw that attempt. Again, it just removes all doubt from anyone's mind and lets the players know that I'm on top of the play. If I forget, I'm going to assume that the defense will think "He didn't see that so there's no point in making a play." The team that really gets the advantage on this is ours - the umps. And'm all for us having every possible advantage.

G O O D
C A L L
B L U E