Am I A Softie ?
 

In my game yesterday i had a young lady swear at me. I called a strike three, looking, on her. She turns and looks at me and Says" Are you F%$#@&* blind?. Now before we get into the end of Western civilization and all that I would like to focus on what I did and if what i did was appropriate, in accordance with the rule book.

I chuckled and walked over to her coach and explained what transpired. I said i didn't think an ejection was warranted but I was going to restrict her to the dugout for the rest of the game. The coach agreed and said she was a bit of an attitude problem lately. My partner thought I should have ejected her. i thought because it wasn't said loudly and only me,her, and F2 heard it I could live with the restriction. having done that was that allowable according to the rules and my belief this was a minor offense,IMO.

Actually i am not a softie but it just didn't seem like she should be ejected.......

Good job. Just you and her.

It makes not a difference to me if it was loud our soft. It was directed at me. If the coach has a problem then you explain it. What is F2 telling the rest of the team back at the bench? Yeah that batter just swore at the ump and nothing happened.

Later on you have a Something else happen but louder and do a toss.. Everyone knows you didnt toss before so now who is being treated fairly or not?

Sorry, but if you put an F bomb on the ump you are walking. Done. End of story. Game Over.

It wasnt just the two of them. F2 is there also.

Something did happen. She was restricted to the bench for the remainder of the game, in other words, not allowed to participate. Seems fair to me, if that was the way this particular umpire wanted to handle it.

If the rules you are following allow a restriction to the dugout for this offense, you followed the rules. Its your call, and your call alone. Despite what your partner or the coach thought, you made the call in accordance to the rules, and can live with it. Thumbs up in my book...no questions needed!

If the rules state that this action is cause for ejection however, restricting her to the dugout is not an available option, no matter how you may personally feel. There are lots of rules in the book that I don't agree with, but we must enforce them all evenly and equally! That's the job of an umpire!

Fed rules?

If no, then ASA (for example) provides no such option as restrict to the bench.

If yes, then the rule(s) you presumably applied were 3-6-13-b (profanity) and/or 3-6-15 (arguing balls and strikes).

The penalty sections allows for umpire judgment that a violation was minor. If judged minor, the penalty is a team warning and ejection if repeated. If not minor, the penalty is ejection. Restriction to the bench is only available as an option under these rules if it is the coach who violates.

So, no, you were not according to the rules.

And, personally, I would not consider swearing directly at the umpire to be a minor violation. Swearing at oneself out of frustration would be a minor violation. Good-natured swearing is no violation at all at the high school age - unless it is loud. (If you don't understand what I mean, I can give an example.)

High School Rules
 

I am looking at the penalty portion on Rule 3-6 (Arts. 11-16). It seems to say only coaches can be restricted and players may be warned and then ejected. So I am confused and maybe i should have ejected her. .

then under rule 2 Section 48 it implies that restriction is generally a result of an infraction of a playing rule. Not an unsporting act.

So now i am thinking i should have ejected her from the game, according to the rulebook.

Agreed....

"Are you F%$#@&* blind?"

No ejection?

Are you F%$#@&* kidding?

If that doesn't do it, what WOULD it take for you to eject someone?

Good example of 'good natured' swearing I had last week-

JV game...P is warming up and bounces the fifth one to the C...a little,but audible s*** comes out... she looks mortified seeing i saw it...I look at her, smile, and say, " Talking about mushrooms I hope!". her fielders go, "Oh yes..****take"! We all laugh and its over.


and yes, you should have ejected the 'f-you' girl

Another example. I'm BU. Ball hit into left field (grounder). Ball goes under F7's glove and she has to chase it down. Runner now on 2B, and as I am moving to position, F8 says to F7, "Nice play." F7 replies, "F--- you."

Not loud; just betwen the two players - good natured ribbing. No violation, in my book.

Matbe it's just me but isn't "restricting a player to the bench" the same thing as ejecting her from the game? The player is not allowed to participate in the game any more. The only difference is that the player does not have to leave the dugout (for liability reasons). Isn't it still considered an "ejection"?

An ejected player in NFHS is expected to stay on the bench, after all you can't have little girls wondering around without adult supervision. The main difference here is with an ejection the player is also suspended for the next game. With this restriction there is no record therefore no additional suspension.

F-bombs buy you the pine modified seat (a spanking) where I grew up.

Bugg

Speaking NFHS, no. It is a less severe penalty. Typically, the state will impose additional penalties on an ejection (suspension for the following game, for example), that do not apply to a restriction to the bench. Ejections require, again typically, the filing of an "incident report" or some such paperwork with the state. Restrictions to the bench may not.

NFHS refers to "ejections" basically as restriction to the bench. There is no differentiation. And by the book, there is no suspension for the next game. That may be a local rule you are referring to.

Again, speaking NFHS, the NFHS rule book makes a clear distinction between a restriction to the bench and an ejection. See NFHS rules 2-19, 2-48, and 3-6-20. Ejection is a more serious sanction than restriction.

All states that I know of (which, I admit, is only a few) suspend ejected players, but not restricted players.

NFHS does make a concession to the in loco parentis responsibilities of the schools by not requiring minor children to leave the area. But that does not make ejection = restriction to the bench.

But, in NFHS an ejected player is restricted to the bench area. I guess that was the point I was trying make. And if a state does not have a clause which suspends an ejected player, then ejection does, in essence, equal restriction to the bench.

Not the umpire's issue. If the violation was bad enough to warrant an ejection as opposed to a bench restriction (and in this case I believe it did), the player should be gone. Babysitting her is the school's problem.

If you really want to instill the idea of what not to do on a ball field, dump the player. It probably will not happen again especially if an assistant coach has to sit on the bus or in the parking lot with the player.

Mike - while I agree with you in philosophy, the NFHS considers the practical side to this rule as well. Often, especially at the lower levels, there may only be one coach for a team. If an ejection requires the player to leave the field and an adult to go with her, the team may have to forfeit due to not having any other responsible school personnel available to coach the team.

As you say, not the umpire's issue, but that is the reasoning behind ejection/resticting to the bench in NFHS.

FWIW - here in AZ, we have to file a report if we eject or restrict to the bench.

Andy,

I am aware of that which is exactly why I said it would not happen again. I also understand an educational institutions responsibility, and liability, as it pertains to it's students.

Rant ON!

However, that doesn't excuse unacceptable behavior and HS is not the place for an organization to be soft about it.

Trust me, if as umpire I was asked to explain why s/he ejected the player, I would make a point of being in front of a group, preferably the school board and the player's parents and in a loud, deep voice repeat what this cute, little, couldn't-harm-a-fly child said to me. If I'm lucky, it will be a Christian academy of some sort. :)

I've been in this situation. I was in the Navy (Phila. Naval Base) and worked LL games on base. A 10 yo kid said (assumingly) the same thing which was raised in this post. I tossed the kid. When Master Chief Long called me to his office to explain myself, I told him in a loud, gruff manner in front of an office of mixed gender, including civilians, that the kid said, "ARE YOU F***ING BLIND!"

The chief was a bit embarrassed, but I only answered the question he asked. He tried to justify the kid's comment by noting we were dealing with military brats. I asked him what would happen if at 10, he had said the same thing to his mother or father. I was immediately dismissed and the kid sat the next two games. Never heard another comment like it or about it again.

We are the adults. As game officials, we are supposed to be the responsible adults. We are supposed to do what is good for the game, not baby sit smart-*** kids that believe this is acceptable behavior, not only on the ball field, but with any adult.

Rant OFF!

AMEN to that Mike.

Youth Gone Wild
 

So after reading through these threads and the corresponding rules it looks like the swearing is an ejection. Now I know. i restricted her versus ejection because I didn't know the rules around that. Not because I wanted to contribute to the fall and decline of western civilization or that I'm not assertive enough,I just didn't know the rules. Next time i will eject.

I am learning the dynamics around softball. In basketball I know,usually, how to handle the coaches/players whats inappropriate etc. Softball has a whole nother vibe to it.

Ejection or restiction to the bench call it whatever you want. The point being that player once they use the "F" word is Going,Going GONE!!!:D You have lost her or his respect and they need to leave the game.Otherwise you make it tough on the next official.Also at least here in NY we can be held liable if the player(student) leaves the field without supervision.In that case I would let her staty on the bench with the understanding she can't partciapate in any way with the team until the game ends.

Not necessarily. IMO, swearing in the following situations warrants an ejection:

Swearing at the umpire...
Swearing at an opponent...
Swearing loud enough for the guy at the top of the bleachers to hear...

Swearing in the following situations may not be an ejection:

Swearing under the breath due to a bad play or error..
Friendly banter between teammates as pointed out earlier in the thread..

A recent example: Good hitter at the plate, F1 is not giving her anything to hit. F1 makes a mistake and floats a pitch right down the middle. Batter crushes the pitch about 20' beyond the fence. As the bat hit the ball, I hear F2 say "Oh, sh!t!" just about loud enough for me to hear.

After BR has rounded the bases, I just tell F2 that I understand her feelings, but try to keep the language under control. She agreed and we finished the ball game.

Isn't this the truth! It's tough not having that intermediate step like a technical foul where you can issue a warning with a penalty and still allow the offender to be part of the game.

Swearing
 

Andy-I agree with your take on the swearing I can talk to the player about. In this case i should have ejected. In our area it does matter if player is restricted or ejected,if ejected player is then suspended for the next game.

The casual F* bomb........has become a bit too casual in my book, but I am not the language police.

However, I have warned......resticted to the bench........but never ejected a player because of it. I have also called games where I have heard that word and pretty much ignored it.

I would however, have a hard time NOT ejecting a player who while looking directly at me said "are you f$%ing blind!"

Just as I admire good catchers who always seem to say the right thing, I can despise a catcher who chirps about every damn thing he/she thinks is wrong. They both get the same consideration............but if a coach asks me how his catcher did........I will give them an honest evaluation......the griper gets D - and the encourager gets A+.

JMHO

Joel