Dropped Second Strike

[blueskysblue]

Weird situation - NFHS FP - bases loaded - two outs - catcher drops 2nd swinging strike and batter takes off for First - all other runners take off - in the confusion, two score - finally, play is killed and umpires confer - batter is called back to the box, count 3 & 2 - all other runners sent back to bases occupied - runs nullified. Offensive coach not happy, but when offered the option of having the batter called out for delay of game, accepted the reset of the play. He actually wanted the batter to be called back, but the runners' advances to stand. I could not see rewarding the offense for a mistake the batter made. If I had thought the batter "intentionally" misplayed the count, rather than just being young and confused, I would have had the third out for delay of game.

What say you all?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by blueskysblue

Weird situation - NFHS FP - bases loaded - two outs - catcher drops 2nd swinging strike and batter takes off for First - all other runners take off - in the confusion, two score - finally, play is killed and umpires confer - batter is called back to the box, count 3 & 2 - all other runners sent back to bases occupied - runs nullified. Offensive coach not happy, but when offered the option of having the batter called out for delay of game, accepted the reset of the play. He actually wanted the batter to be called back, but the runners' advances to stand. I could not see rewarding the offense for a mistake the batter made. If I had thought the batter "intentionally" misplayed the count, rather than just being young and confused, I would have had the third out for delay of game.

What say you all?

Bring the batter back, all action stands. The defense must take some responsibility for knowing the count.

How are you going to call the batter out for delaying the game, when the defense was not prepared to pitch the ball to the batter.

DMC.

[blueskysblue]

What's DMC?

Actually, several defensive players were yelling "that's only two strikes"; however, the catcher saw the batter take off and rushed her throw to 1st. The throw was in time, but since it wasn't a dropped third strike, the batter wasn't / couldn't be out. Meanwhile, the baserunners continued running. The first baseman did not attempt to throw anyone else out, because she knew she had the out on the batter runner.

That's why we felt the only action fair to both teams was to "reset".

I appreciate your position, Mike. If it ever happens again . . . .

[blueskysblue]

By the way, I have read in the NFHS Baseball Case Book (couldn't find it in the softball case book) (I know, I know, baseball and softball are different games) that a runner who runs down to First on Ball Three, thinking it was Ball Four can be penalized for delay of game, with no mention of the pitcher being ready to pitch.

[Ed Maeder]

First of all with the bases loaded and two outs and dropped third strike all the catcher had to do was get the ball and touch home and inning over. Seeings there was only two strikes the defense has to be responsible for knowing the situation also. I call the batter back assume the count and all runs count. There is no other rules to back up what was done. The batter didn't make the mistake the defense did. The catcher also broke the rules by not returning the ball directly back to the pitcher on strike two. There was no strike out, no putout made by the catcher, or no play on a base runner.

[Steve M]

OK, so you're playing scholastic ball. What does the book say - and reread that delay of game section - does this really fit in the context that the Fed states in the book?

Both the defense and the offense are resposible for being ball players - that means they know the situation and the game.

Addition - DMC = Dumb Move, Catcher

[debeau]

If this was done on purpose havnt we got interference .
After all the offensive player is confusing a defensive player .

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Steve M

OK, so you're playing scholastic ball. What does the book say - and reread that delay of game section - does this really fit in the context that the Fed states in the book?

Both the defense and the offense are resposible for being ball players - that means they know the situation and the game.

Addition - DMC = Dumb Move, Catcher

Not arguing what the rule (not interference) says; and that is how I enforce it. But, I argue that the offense is protected against 1) not knowing the situation (count), 2) not knowing the D3K rule, and/or 3) intentionally fabricating a play whose sole intent is to confuse the defense, while the defense only is held to the standard of knowing all of the above. Not exactly equitable, in my mind.

But, oh well. It is what it is, and we enforce the rule as written.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by blueskysblue

By the way, I have read in the NFHS Baseball Case Book (couldn't find it in the softball case book) (I know, I know, baseball and softball are different games) that a runner who runs down to First on Ball Three, thinking it was Ball Four can be penalized for delay of game, with no mention of the pitcher being ready to pitch.

NFHS baseball still has the rule about keeping one foot in the batter's box in between pitches. That's the reason a delay of game penalty would be issued there.

I agree with the majority...call the batter back but the runners score or stay where they advanced.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by blueskysblue

By the way, I have read in the NFHS Baseball Case Book (couldn't find it in the softball case book) (I know, I know, baseball and softball are different games) that a runner who runs down to First on Ball Three, thinking it was Ball Four can be penalized for delay of game, with no mention of the pitcher being ready to pitch.

Fed baseball has stupid rules to combat a problem that I don't believe really exists much anymore.

[MichaelVA2000]

By the way, I have read in the NFHS Baseball Case Book (couldn't find it in the softball case book) (I know, I know, baseball and softball are different games) that a runner who runs down to First on Ball Three, thinking it was Ball Four can be penalized for delay of game, with no mention of the pitcher being ready to pitch.
__________________
Lloyd


I'm in agreement with Mike on this one. Runners stay where they advanced to, runs count and the batter is returned to the box with the correct count. I wasn't able to find your reference to a batter being penalized for delay of game in the case book, please provide a page number for me.

Thanks