LL rule comp

[CecilOne]

I know I asked this last year, but can't find the response (I think Serge and U M Sam). I know NFHS, NCAA, PONY, ASA; so naturally my granddaughter is playing LL softball. I'd like to know the rule differences which will confuse me while watching her games. If there is a list comparing LL with NFHS or PONY, that would be great.

[U of M Sam]

CecilOne:
What LL age level will your granddaughter play? Please advise.
In the meantime, I will check on-line to try finding rule differences between LL and NFHS softball. If I can't find internet info, I will advise you of the differences that I know.
Sam

[CecilOne]

What you know is fine, not asking for you to spend time working on it.
Don't know why search didn't fine your response from last year.
She is 10, playing on 10-12.

[U of M Sam]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

What you know is fine, not asking for you to spend time working on it.
Don't know why search didn't fine your response from last year.
She is 10, playing on 10-12.

CecilOne:
Basic differences between NFHS and LL (for the LL "Major" Division):
Batter: No advance on non-caught 3rd strike / League may adopt to have all players on roster bat (otherwise bat 9-applies in tournament play) / max 33" bat length and of course 2 1/4" diameter / IFF is in effect
Runner: Maintain contact with base until pitched ball reaches batter / LBR in effect / "Special Pinch Runner" (no CR) for any player once per inning (applies only if 9 batters in line up) / Runners must slide legally (there is no "must slide" rule).
Pitcher: Limited innings per game and week / Same pitching mechanics as NFHS although not too many "illegal" pitches called / No advance of runners if illegal pitch is called / 10-12 year old level might use 11" (instead of 12") softball / Coach may call "Time" to visit (pitcher and catcher only) at pitcher plate / 3 time outs allowed per pitcher with 4th time out resulting in removal of pitcher (this applies to each pitcher).
Misc: League may adopt max. runs per team per inning (usually 5) with the last inning unlimited runs / May allow 10 defensive players (usually when having all players bat) / 1 offensive time out per team per inning / 2 adult coaches may occupy coaching boxes / Maximum 1 adult manager and 2 adult coaches / Adult coach or manager must remain in bench area / Player may occupy coaching box / Generally only players warm up pitcher-not coaches / Each player may re-enter once / No DP/Flex
During tournament play some regular season rules are slightly adjusted such as no run limit and teams play 9 and bat 9. "Dangling" type throat protector required on catchers mask even if regular mask has an "extended" throat protector (including HSM).
Little League web site: www.littleleague.org
I will advise if I think of any other differences. Hope this helps.
Sam

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by U of M Sam

CecilOne:
Basic differences between NFHS and LL (for the LL "Major" Division):
Batter: No advance on non-caught 3rd strike / League may adopt to have all players on roster bat (otherwise bat 9-applies in tournament play) / max 33" bat length and of course 2 1/4" diameter / IFF is in effect
Runner: Maintain contact with base until pitched ball reaches batter / LBR in effect / "Special Pinch Runner" (no CR) for any player once per inning (applies only if 9 batters in line up) / Runners must slide legally (there is no "must slide" rule).
Pitcher: Limited innings per game and week / Same pitching mechanics as NFHS although not too many "illegal" pitches called / No advance of runners if illegal pitch is called / 10-12 year old level might use 11" (instead of 12") softball / Coach may call "Time" to visit (pitcher and catcher only) at pitcher plate / 3 time outs allowed per pitcher with 4th time out resulting in removal of pitcher (this applies to each pitcher).
Misc: League may adopt max. runs per team per inning (usually 5) with the last inning unlimited runs / May allow 10 defensive players (usually when having all players bat) / 1 offensive time out per team per inning / 2 adult coaches may occupy coaching boxes / Maximum 1 adult manager and 2 adult coaches / Adult coach or manager must remain in bench area / Player may occupy coaching box / Generally only players warm up pitcher-not coaches / Each player may re-enter once / No DP/Flex
During tournament play some regular season rules are slightly adjusted such as no run limit and teams play 9 and bat 9. "Dangling" type throat protector required on catchers mask even if regular mask has an "extended" throat protector (including HSM).
Little League web site: www.littleleague.org
I will advise if I think of any other differences. Hope this helps.
Sam

It helps me considerably. I did my first LL yesterday with a volunteer BU. Lots of walks; both games were time limit affairs. They did not put a circle around the pitching plate so LBR was a challenge

[CecilOne]

That is terrific. Thanks Sam

[U of M Sam]

I'm glad I could help. This (and other umpire forum's) are a good source of info.
Sam

[tcblue13]

Does the batter have to try to get out of the way before awarding 1B on the HBP?

[Az.Ump]

Don't forget the obstruction rule. L.L. still lets the throw "take you there".

Paul B.

[Az.Ump]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

Does the batter have to try to get out of the way before awarding 1B on the HBP?

Yes

Paul B.

[U of M Sam]

Originally Posted by Az.Ump

Don't forget the obstruction rule. L.L. still lets the throw "take you there".

Paul B.

I disagree. I have not received my 2006 LL softball rule book yet (and I don't think the following has been changed):
7.06- When the obstruction occurs, the umpire shall call or signal "Obstruction". (b) Note 2: If the defensive player blocks the base (plate) or base line clearly without possession of the ball, obstruction shall be the call. The runner is safe and a delayed dead ball shall be called.

Therefore (as I understand) if the fielder is attempting to receive the ball and the throw "takes them into the runner or base path", then obstruction occurs per the rule noted above. This same text is also in the LL baseball rule book.
Sam

[Az.Ump]

I only have the 2005 books. The L.L. green book covers both softball and baseball as does the RIM. The L.L. softball book covers just softball but leaves out many of the comments and explanations. L.L. softball treats obstruction the same in softball as it does baseball. The rule I am told is written like the NCAA men’s rule. It has both type "A" and "B" with automatic awards for type A. If the defensive player blocks the base prior to the throw then they must receive the throw prior to the obstruction. If they set up not blocking the base and the throw takes them there than we have possible train wreck live ball play on. There is still umpire judgment as to if the player had a reasonable chance to glove the ball.


From the 2005 book.

OBSTRUCTION is the act of a fielder who, while not in possession of the ball, impedes the progress of any runner. A fake tag is considered obstruction. (NOTE: Obstruction shall be called on a defensive player who blocks off a base, base line or home plate from a base runner while not in possession of the ball.)
Author's Note:
The November 2002 Fair Ball had the following comment:
Comments – Examples of obstruction: The first basemen using their foot or sometimes dropping down and using their leg from the knee down to block the runner's dive/step back into first base on a pickoff throw; or the shortstop without the ball coming in behind the runner leading off second base and blocking the runner's path back to the base on pickoff throws; the third basemen standing in the base line watching the play develop and making the base runner go around to touch third base. All are obstruction because all would occur prior to the defensive player catching the ball, and many times the runner has no opportunity to get back to the base or get to a base. The defensive player (after being contacted by the runner who was attempting to return to the base) would then catch the ball and apply the tag.
The play where the throw takes a fielder into the path of a runner is still incidental contact, i.e. a train wreck, as it always has been. If a throw takes a defensive player (in a legitimate attempt to catch the throw) into a baseline or in front of a base/plate and there is contact with the base runner, this should be deemed incidental contact (as it always has been) and would only be obstruction if the umpire determined the contact was intentional.
The defensive players should be taught that without the ball they must stay out of the baseline and once they have made the catch they may now go into the baseline to apply (make) the tag. Instead of how it has been in the past, where they are taught to block the base (plate), and then catch the ball and apply (make) the tag.
This is how they (L.L.) teach it at their schools for both baseball and softball.

Paul B.

[tcblue13]

I had two people ask me if the ball became dead following and infield fly in LL. Going by Fed rules, I said no. But, is it different in LL?

Another question
Does it matter which way the BR turns after she passes 1B as long as she is not making an attempt to go to 2B?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

I had two people ask me if the ball became dead following and infield fly in LL. Going by Fed rules, I said no. But, is it different in LL?

Another question
Does it matter which way the BR turns after she passes 1B as long as she is not making an attempt to go to 2B?

What would be the point of the ball becoming dead on an IF, when the purpose is to protect the runners from non-tag-up plays if the ball is not caught?

[tcblue13]

I understand the purpose of the rule but since 1 coach and 1 adult parent (like there would be any other kind) asked the same question, I did not know if LL took the further step of killing the play