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Mon Mar 27, 2006, 09:43am
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Need Some Help...
This is one that I've gotten a different answer from two different Umpires.
With a runner on 1st, only one out, two strikes to the batter, the batter swings at and misses a pitch that hits her hand. The runner at 1st was attempting a steal of 2nd and is tagged out prior to reaching the base. What is the call? Which call below is correct? 1. Dead ball. The batter is the only out. 2. Live ball. The batter is out with strike three and the runner is out on the tag. 3. Dead ball. The batter is awarded first for being hit by a pitch. 4. Foul ball. The hands are part of the bat. The runner must return to first. nothin' like fun at the ole' ball park! 
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Mon Mar 27, 2006, 09:50am
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Scott It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
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Mon Mar 27, 2006, 10:04am
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Steve ASA/ISF/NCAA/NFHS/PGF
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Mon Mar 27, 2006, 10:30am
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 The first thing to call is Dead Ball and then determine if the batter gets to take a base, or if she didn't make an attempt to move away from the ball just make the call strike or ball. So if a ball hits her hand while swinging it would be a dead ball and she goes to first base and the runner stealing cannot be called out on a dead ball, so she simply goes to 2nd. One of the local umpires said the batters hand is part of the bat and another said it's not, which would make a big difference in the call. Still looking for the answer in the rule book. I remember reading something about it in the rules last year, but the USSSA rule book is not well organized IMO, and takes so long to find anything. Thanks, ... Al
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Mon Mar 27, 2006, 10:33am
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Al, why are you sending this batter to first base on a 3rd strike?
Ball hits batter - dead ball. Batter was swinging - so it's a strike - the 3rd one in this case. Batter out. Ball was dead - R1 back to first. And if you have an umpire EVER say "the hands are part of the bat", do your best to avoid this non-umpire in the future. This is myth 1-A in the book that every REAL umpire who has attended even a single clinic (or spent one day here on the forum) knows is false.
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"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson Last edited by mcrowder; Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 10:37am.
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Mon Mar 27, 2006, 10:41am
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That's what I recall the proper call to be in this situation. Ring rust has set in over the last several months of off season. Thanks Steve, ..Al
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Mon Mar 27, 2006, 10:44am
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That was more of a question I had with someone that believes the hand is part of the bat. I just heard this from an ump and it didn't ring true with my memory, so I posed the question to the board. Thank you! ...Al
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Mon Mar 27, 2006, 11:48am
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Steve wrote: .."Whenever a batter is contacted with a pitch, it is a dead ball. If the pitch is a strike, whether called or swinging, it is a dead ball strike. If that makes strike three, batter is out. No one else can be out or advance on a dead ball". I've been a coach pitch umpire, where there is no stealing or situations like the one I presented. I was told that I may be working some fastpitch this year from time to time. So of course, I have a lot to get straight in my mind, especially if behind the plate. But, even if I'm working the bases it's vital that I know the rules that may come into play. Some angry coach may want an appeal to me on a play such as this one. I'm glad I found this board, where clarity and accuracy can be found to many situations that may and do come up on the field... All you guys are a great source of help. ..And I appreciate it! Thanks to Brad also for doing a great job running a fine forum! ..Al
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Mon Mar 27, 2006, 12:03pm
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Another one to remember - no coach may "appeal" to you about a call your partner made. Should one try, send the coach to your partner with a simple "Coach, my partner made the call, you need to talk to my partner." I put the word appeal in quotes, 'cuz that's not an appeal.
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Steve M
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Mon Mar 27, 2006, 12:42pm
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 As you now know, the instant the batter was hit by the pitch, you would have had a dead ball. That means no other action can occur. Since it was the third strike on the batter, she is out.
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Scott It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
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Mon Mar 27, 2006, 05:27pm
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Thanks Skahtboi, And you do a good job teaching! I enjoy learning from your posts, as well as some others. Last year I filled in as base umpire two times for fast pitch teams. The administrator wanted me to get some on the job training, and tried to work me in when possible. He knows I love the game and desire to advance to higher levels. (although I am a bit nervous, thinking about first time behind the plate). In one game a pitched ball went behind a left handed batter and the plate umpire called it a ball. The coach said it hit her, and after a heated show of anger he asked the plate umpire if he could ask me (base ump down the first base foul line) if the ball hit her. The plate umpire said yes...I saw the ball did hit the girl's shirt, so I said "the ball hit her". The plate umpire said take your base. Get this > after the girl got to first base she said "the ball didn't hit me, but I felt it touch my shirt". I had just read the rules on that play and told her if the ball hits your shirt it's the same as hitting you, unless your shirt is hanging way out of your pants. The plate umpire told me after the inning that the girl had told her the ball didn't hit her, and he said he was not aware of the rule about a ball hitting a batters garments. I wish our area had better umpires at the 10 and under fastpitch level to learn from. Anyway, as Steve has mentioned...Could I have refused to call it when the plate umpire granted the coach permission to ask me, thinking I had a better view of the play, and hoping for a different call? Could I have simply said:.. "It's his call and the call was made, so it stands? In other words if the plate umpire, or the base umpire, is asked for help does he have to say yea or ney? And if so should he/she just let a wrong call stand, if given a chance to correct it? I don't want to ever change my partners call unless I am absolutly possitive he made a bad call. And vise versa. I do understand this could create problems, but would expect it to be a very rare thing. Well, this has been a beautiful day here in central TN. so I'm off to the park to see if there are any games or practices going on. ...Later, ...Al Last edited by Al; Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 05:31pm.
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Mon Mar 27, 2006, 06:05pm
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Since the girl was swinging, the ball contacted her hand, so I am assuming that the catcher did not catch out of the air. Is the correct call the batter is out right there OR the dropped third strike principle is in effect and there is a need for a tag of B/R or a throw to first?
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Mon Mar 27, 2006, 06:12pm
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Al, if a coach wants the umpire to "get a 2nd opinion" from his partner, it should be the UMPIRE that has the discussion with his partner, with no coaches anywhere near. In no case should you allow the coach to go discuss the play with another umpire.
Pigsuey? Uh.... what are you talking about?
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"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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Mon Mar 27, 2006, 07:35pm
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A buddy of mine was telling me about a recent (last week) televised NCAA game where this happened and the PU got it wrong .. but the BU fixed it.
Sad really.
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ASA, NCAA, NFHS
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Tue Mar 28, 2006, 07:21am
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