That's off line from what I am asking. I am saying if as PU you call a strike on a batter you don't go for help since you saw something that convinced you it was a strike. So in Little Jimmy's post he said the fielder made a sweeeping tag attempt and the PU called her out and then went for help which was then overturned. If they were not sure shouldn't they have called her safe and then went for help and if they were sure there was a tag then why go to your partner? I just want to get it right. Dave

Maybe you had a typo, but in my post I said that base ump, not plate ump, made the original out call. Then he went to plate for some help.

I understood what you said.

Are you 100% sure of every call you make when you make it? Do you call what your eyes and brain tell you what happened?

For as much as we know, the ball beat the runner and the BU lost sight of the glove with the ball in it behind the runner's body that may have blocked out the umpire. There are many plays like this during the course of the game.

You call what you see. The BU may have believed he saw a tag and then had second thoughts. Personally, I'm going to make the call and let the play finish.

I'm not saying the BU was 100% on the manner in which s/he went for help, just that the book now instructs the umpire to make a call if at all possible.

You are debating whether the umpire should have to see a tag before calling a player out. I contend that umpires routinely make calls without being 100% sure the actual tag was made. A sweep tag on the BR is a perfect example. Often the BU sees F3 sweep the glove toward the back of the BR. The PU, if trailing, gets a two-dimensional look at F3's glove passing by the BR. However, it's very likely that neither were close enough or had the perfect angle to see if the BR was actually touched. Yet, an umpire will call this player out based upon the BR's reaction, a sound which the umpire believed was contact or the umpire's eyes just reasoned contact had to be made.

As I am sure you are by far the more experienced umpire, I'll go with what you say. Dave

Not what I'm saying. ASA has put it in the book.

As others have said, BU is to make their best call. Not indisputable 100% evidence, but if the preponderence of evidence is that you have an out, call the out. If you really just don't know, call safe.

No matter what you call, unless you are 100% sure, be prepared and willing to ask PU for assistance and additional information from that angle if either coach asks (appropriately). In NCAA, it is mandated that you go for help if asked; everywhere else, it is a good practice.

Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket!!!

Good phrase, Steve. Wish I had said it.

I completely understand what you are saying I just don't see why if they put that in the ASA book why don't they also let the PU call a strike on a batter and then have the option of going to their partner for help. Not trying to be a pain in the rear, just inquiring where there is a difference. Dave