NFHS Update

[WestMichBlue]

NFHS Update

Received email today from Randy Allen, a member of the NFHS Softball Rules Committee WRT several issues.

1. 8.4.3 “About to receive” insertion. His reply: “The 2006 rules book has mistakenly included the “about to receive” language. It is a mistake and we are making the correction at rules meetings with a handout.”

2. Removing “Runner remaining on her feet and crashing into defender” from 8.3.14. He agreed this is correct. Apparently they want us to focus specifically on the malicious contact part. (Personally, I have seen umpires ejecting players for this type of collision even though intent or malicious contact was not obvious.) We still can call the runner out for interference under 8.3.13.

3. Confirming my previous statement about the penalty for BOO. Regardless of what the improper batter did (got on base, or made an out), she goes“poof.” She never existed. Only outs are those on other runners and the out being called on the proper batter for failing to bat in order.

4. What are “confines of the field?” His reply: “We define the confines of the field as inside the fence. I have advised officials that if they see a pitcher warming up outside the confines of the field, it is good practice to suggest to a coach between innings that a mask/head protector for the non-adult person doing the catching is advisable.”

WMB

[CecilOne]

wrt #3 - don't tell Mike.

wrt #4 - I think my original comment about beyond the confines "Beyond that, if I notice such action, I say "Coach, the warmup catcher isn't wearing a mask"; in a friendly advice tone. Also because we know NFHS leans toward safety plus we don't want a game delayed. " fits, but tell me if it doesn't.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by CecilOne
wrt #3 - don't tell Mike.

Fed's shortcomings, not mine. This is what happens when you have baseball people involved

[U of M Sam]

Hi WMB:
I sure hope all our association members receive the described info (especially obstruction) so coaches do not try to "work" some umps.
See you at some future meetings.
Sam

[WestMichBlue]

This is what happens when you have baseball people involved

Ahh Mike, I realize that you are trying to be humorous, but you really don't have a clue when it comes to the NFHS. For years the NFHS Softball book has paralleled, and often copied the ASA book. For example, in 1979 both ASA and NFHS had identical pitching rules - both feet on the plate and no drag - the pivot foot had to maintain contact until the stride foot landed. Ten years later ASA decided to allow the drag and also allowed it's male pitchers to step back. NFHS followed, including taking the male rule into its book and allowing female pitchers to step back.

Interesting that for years both ASA and NFHS treated the BOO violation the same - simply negate the actions of the improper batter and bring them back up to bat. It has only been in the last few years (since '99) that ASA added the words "Any out that is made prior to discovering this infraction, remains out." And NFHS brought that language over in 2003 when they updated Rule 7 to more closely match ASA's Rule 7. But NFHS never wanted that, and they finally have it out.

Baseball mentality? I doubt it. I know one of the Softball Committee members, and he is all softball. And I doubt you can believe the new NCAA Women’s Basketball Coordinator Mary Struckhoff or Emily Alexander, two other members could be considered baseball types.

BTW – haven’t we recently seen ASA follow some leads of the NFHS? Ie., DP/FLEX, ball not higher that the head, and now preventing ball from entering strike zone to be called a strike. Does ASA have a baseball mentality?

WMB

[IRISHMAFIA]

Humorous? Yes, to some point. But around here, NFHS is built around baseball umpires. Softball has crept in there, but to this day, the UIC is a baseball guy first.

BTW, DP/FLEX? Ludicrous change. The DEFO was perfect as the DEFO was Defense Only. When that player went into the batting order, the DEFO went away.

Personally, I'd just rather see the rule go away. I've always thought of it as a Charlie Finley type of rule.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Humorous? Yes, to some point. But around here, NFHS is built around baseball umpires. Softball has crept in there, but to this day, the UIC is a baseball guy first.

BTW, DP/FLEX? Ludicrous change. The DEFO was perfect as the DEFO was Defense Only. When that player went into the batting order, the DEFO went away.

Personally, I'd just rather see the rule go away. I've always thought of it as a Charlie Finley type of rule.

Just to stir things up a bit,did you know that the NL came within ONE vote of trying the DH in 1929?? And that the idea had been floating around since the 1900's!

Also, when it came time to actually put the rule in the book, the AL actually called two umps to figure out all the details...and they chose...Bill Kunkel and....Ron Luciano of all people.

[BretMan]

Just to give you another perspective, around here the NFHS baseball umpires and softball umpires are totally separate entities. They have their own associations, their own meetings, do their own training and testing, do their own scheduling and never the twain shall meet.

Trying to keep dual-certifications for both sports can be tough. I've been going the ASA softball/NFHS baseball route for the past few years. The baseball training around here is pretty intense, but the training available for softball is far, far behind.

Imagine how thrilled I was to find out that an ASA state umpires clinic was finally going to be held in my area (well, about 2 hours south of me, but close enough).

Then, imagine how disappointed I was to find out that our local baseball umpire association has a field clinic scheduled for the very same day!

I'm leaning toward the ASA clinic, as I have attended the annual baseball clinic for several years.


[Edited by BretMan on Jan 31st, 2006 at 01:37 PM]

[AtlUmpSteve]

Like everyone here, I also wish all sanctions of softball was consistent in its rules and interpretations, and I also have my preferences about which interpretation I would use, and which one rule set I would start with if that was a possibility. But, it isn't. We should be pleased that NFHS and ASA are working together as much as they are these days, to minimize rule change differences (if not standing rules).

All that aside, we can't blame the ridiculously renamed FLEX on NFHS; yes, DEFO was so much clearer. To everyone but college coaches, who questioned how a position called "defense only" could play offense. To the rest of the world, the answer was simple; when that person was no longer playing DEFO(!!), but that just wasn't clear enough for the NCAA, which changed to FLEX first. Remember, this is the rule set which allows only C and 1B to wear mitts, but allows the player assigned to 1B to play anywhere on the right side of the infield, so long as they don't report a defensive change!! (Not so the catcher who must start each pitch in the catchers box, nor could any other player be in foul territory to start a pitch; but not by definition of who can use a mitt.)

Anyway, ASA, NFHS, and ISF changed to FLEX to match what the NCAA started, not an NFHS creation.

[bkbjones]

We have it pretty good up here in the Seattle area. Of course I knew that before I read the foregoing horror stories.

The only thing we share in common with the baseball folks is that we are members of Washington Officials Association. Baseball does its thing, softball does its thing. Folks who do NFHS fastpitch in King County are members of SMSUA, which is also affiliated with ASA (through the Seattle Tacoma Association), and the Metro UIC (currently Malcolm Boyles) is also the SMSUA UIC. (Note: We do have some NFHS folks who do not work ASA, and some ASA folks who do not work NFHS.)

We have separate clinics at the WIAA/WOA level, different coordinators at WIAA, etc. In the Seattle area, softball umpires are not relegated to the back burner – and we like it.

[scottk_61]

Originally posted by BretMan
Just to give you another perspective, around here the NFHS baseball umpires and softball umpires are totally separate entities. They have their own associations, their own meetings, do their own training and testing, do their own scheduling and never the twain shall meet.

Trying to keep dual-certifications for both sports can be tough. I've been going the ASA softball/NFHS baseball route for the past few years. The baseball training around here is pretty intense, but the training available for softball is far, far behind.

Imagine how thrilled I was to find out that an ASA state umpires clinic was finally going to be held in my area (well, about 2 hours south of me, but close enough).

Then, imagine how disappointed I was to find out that our local baseball umpire association has a field clinic scheduled for the very same day!

I'm leaning toward the ASA clinic, as I have attended the annual baseball clinic for several years.


[Edited by BretMan on Jan 31st, 2006 at 01:37 PM]

Go to the ASA clinic.
I say that because it is a good first opportunity for you.
You won't be disappointed I am sure.
As an aside, I have worked minor league pro in years past along with 20 years of Fed Baseball plus some college along the way.
As I notice the newer umpires who are moving up, many of them are using ASA softball hand signals, I even saw it last year during spring training down here in Florida. In many areas, baseball gurus are recognizing the value of some of our softball mechanics and are translating them over to baseball.
It won't work in every area, but for some it does.

Aside from that, attending another clinic never hurts as it expands your exposure to others and their skills.

[Ump18]

Originally posted by scottk_61

Go to the ASA clinic.
I say that because it is a good first opportunity for you.
You won't be disappointed I am sure.
As an aside, I have worked minor league pro in years past along with 20 years of Fed Baseball plus some college along the way.
As I notice the newer umpires who are moving up, many of them are using ASA softball hand signals, I even saw it last year during spring training down here in Florida. In many areas, baseball gurus are recognizing the value of some of our softball mechanics and are translating them over to baseball.
It won't work in every area, but for some it does.

Aside from that, attending another clinic never hurts as it expands your exposure to others and their skills.

When and where did you work pro ball...are you still working baseball?

[shipwreck]

It doesn't make sense to me either. Actually the DP has more ways to be used in a game than the Flex does. When I think of Flex I think of flexible, which the DP is more of. Dave

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
NFHS Update

Received email today from Randy Allen, a member of the NFHS Softball Rules Committee WRT several issues.

1. 8.4.3 “About to receive” insertion. His reply: “The 2006 rules book has mistakenly included the “about to receive” language. It is a mistake and we are making the correction at rules meetings with a handout.”

2. Removing “Runner remaining on her feet and crashing into defender” from 8.3.14. He agreed this is correct. Apparently they want us to focus specifically on the malicious contact part. (Personally, I have seen umpires ejecting players for this type of collision even though intent or malicious contact was not obvious.) We still can call the runner out for interference under 8.3.13.

3. Confirming my previous statement about the penalty for BOO. Regardless of what the improper batter did (got on base, or made an out), she goes“poof.” She never existed. Only outs are those on other runners and the out being called on the proper batter for failing to bat in order.

4. What are “confines of the field?” His reply: “We define the confines of the field as inside the fence. I have advised officials that if they see a pitcher warming up outside the confines of the field, it is good practice to suggest to a coach between innings that a mask/head protector for the non-adult person doing the catching is advisable.”

WMB

#2 is 8.6.14 not 8.3.14

Good change..

#1 sucks that they messed that up... and it will do no good that 14 umpires on Official Forum will know its a mess up and every coach player and parent will simply read the rule book....

[Bandit]

Ok guys, hello been a long time and maybe I have missed something and if I have I apologize and hope someone can correct me. I have looked at other posts recently that are titled "NFHS" and cannot find any connecting point so I must respond to one of the first threads on this particular subject.

WestMichBlue wrote :
Received email today from Randy Allen, a member of the NFHS Softball Rules Committee WRT several issues

Item 4 was written/copied :

4. What are “confines of the field?” His reply: “We define the confines of the field as inside the fence. I have advised officials that if they see a pitcher warming up outside the confines of the field, it is good practice to suggest to a coach between innings that a mask/head protector for the non-adult person doing the catching is advisable.”

With all do respect, I believe someone has miss spoken. According to page 38 of the NFHS rule book; Rule 3 -6-6. If anyone other than the 1.) batter, 2.) runner(s), 3.) on-deck batter, 4.) coaches in the coaches box, 5.) or one of the nine players on defense (10 in S.P.) are out of the designated dugout/bench or bullpen area during the game the penalty is: The umpire shall issue a team warning to the coach of team involved and the next offender on that team shall be restricted to the dugout/bench for the remainder of the game. I also believe that if they are in the bullpen, it must be confined, not simply outside the field where people ( small children especially) can be hit by a bad pitch or simply the catcher or pitcher missing a throw when they walk by or are sitting in the stands.

I believe you have no choice but to issue a team warning on the first offense and confine on the second. This has always been the position of the NFHS.

In the item written or supplied by Randy Allen it appears that he is allowing the players to remain outside of the "confines of the field". Now obviously how each individual umpires handles "team warnings" difer but I don't believe I would allow them to remain in outside the "confines of the field" and simply tell someone to put on a protector.