Look back rule stoppage

[Tex]

Had this Look back play in a 14-U game this past weekend and wanted to know if the proper call was made.

The batter hits a double to right field and has just rounded second, stopped, and is looking at the pitcher. The pitcher is inside the pitching circle, holding the ball, and has raised her arm as to make a play on the runner at second base. I realized that the Lock back rule is not in effect as the pitcher has just made a play on the runner. But what happens next is where the question is.
The second base runner stops about 2 feet short from returning to second. The pitcher has also stopped inside the circle. In other words both the runner and pitcher are now motionless and starring at each other. After at least 4 seconds, I started counting to 4 seconds and called the runner out. Between innings, neither of the coaches nor the other umpire had a problem with the call. All commented that no one had seen this before.
Questions:
1) Was the call proper?
2) How long can both the base runner and pitcher remain motionless after a play on the runner?

[Dakota]

I have no problem with your call. You gave the runner ample time to determine there was no longer a play being made.

Since the pitcher faked a throw, being generous with the time is OK by me. I'm assuming the pitcher dropped her arm. If she kept it raised, then there was still a play in progress.

[chuck chopper]

I feel the look back rule cannot be put back on until this play ended. It never ended. At best, the Ump should just call time.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by chuck chopper
I feel the look back rule cannot be put back on until this play ended. It never ended. At best, the Ump should just call time.

What if the pitcher turned her back to the runner, would that end the play? What if the pitcher turned away, but continued to look at the runner over her shoulder? What if....anything?

If it is obvious the play is over, the LB becomes effective. I think the umpire gave the runner more than sufficient time, but then again, it is the umpire's judgment.

OTOH, it is my belief that the Look Back should be abandoned and just have the umpire(s) kill the ball when it is obvious that all play is finished.

[mcrowder]

I doubt I would have given 8 seconds. Once the pitcher dropped her arm, the runner has the opportunity to decide what to do. Anything bigger than 3-4 seconds and she's just baiting the pitcher and wasting time - the exact situation that is supposed to be stopped by this rule. After I'd counted to 4 the FIRST time, I have an out.

I completely don't understand Chuck's comment, so I'll let him elaborate or defend it by rule before disagreeing too strongly, but it sounds like he's calling time during play to avoid invoking the LBR. LBR is off when the pitcher makes or fakes a play, but it's back on once it's obvious the pitcher is no longer making a play (i.e. arm comes down)

[Dakota]

Originally posted by mcrowder
I doubt I would have given 8 seconds....

I misread / didn't do the math. I saw 4 seconds. I agree 8 is probably too long, but it would depend on the actions of the pitcher (that is, 8 seconds from when? When the pitcher raised her arm? Or, when the pitcher dropped her arm?)

[chuck chopper]

I saw this as a cat/mouse game initially. If we are sure that pitcher is not doing an "I dare ya" then go ahead and put the look back rule on after a few seconds. 4 seconds was generous.

[greymule]

it is my belief that the Look Back should be abandoned and just have the umpire(s) kill the ball when it is obvious that all play is finished

Amen.

Doing an 18u tourney two weekends ago. Runner overruns 1B toward RF and starts back toward 1B. F1 gets the ball and stands motionless in the circle. Runner continues a couple of steps toward 1B and then breaks for 2B.

I call her out.

Coach goes nuts. "We've used that play a dozen times in the ASA nationals! It doesn't matter that the ball is in the circle. The runner's not committed to 1B until she actually retouches it. She can break for 2B any time before she reaches 1B." Etc., etc.

Coach goes into his dugout and I see him searching for his rule book. He finds it, and whatever he reads, he keeps quiet the rest of the game.

Then I remembered where I had seen that coach before. It was in a showcase tourney four months earlier... where I had called one of his girls out for the same offense.