Had a rough week in the heat and had to call 3 people out for swearing. I spent some time rereading the asa book and didn't find anything aoout it. I know this may be a local rule, but would like some opinions on what should be called and what shouldn't. Local rules state no swearing if cought it is an out. I usually let them get by if they are just mumbling it under there breath and no one else will hear it but if it is loud enough that the fans will hear I ring them up. Trouble is there is no definition of what words are banned.
What do others think.

Yes, local rule all the way. This is not a good rule because it's very hard to get consistency with it. What one umpire would toss for, another would not. Also, I can guarantee you that what would be said on a softball field comes nowhere close to what these kids will here in a hallway every day at school (I'm only two years removed from those hallways so I remember it very well) so I'm all for just letting it go. If the league that you works wants this rule in place, I would suggest they sit down and come up with a list for their umpires, so everyone's on the same page. JMO.

-Josh

I want to know how any league has this rule in place.You mean to tell me a guy (or girl) hits a 350 ft shot that's caught the batter/runner says **** and then what do I do.I already have a out. Unless the comments are directed at me or a partciapant in the game I'm not getting involved.

Around here...If that situation happened, then the next hitter is declared out and doesn't get to bat. And then that hitter, goes to the other guy and tells him to keep his fat mouth shut.

When the rule started here, every other word in league was a profanity. As I have said before, the first year the rule was in place, I called it about 20 times. In the 9 or so years since, I've had to call it probably three times. Every time I did call it, never once did the teams get upset with me, they always went after the guy that did the swearing.

Perhaps George Carlin can help with the words.

Minnesota has a casual profanity rule. It works.

I agree with gsf23.

Speaking ASA

If I wanted to be the language police, I'd go to work for the FCC or some other socialist group.

If it isn't directed toward or about an umpire, player, manager or coach and has no bearing on the game, I really don't give a damn what the player says.

If loud, I will ask them to keep it down, but there is no stipulation or allowance to penalize in accordance with the rules.

The FCC is run by socialists? ;)

Social what?
 

If Michael Powell is a socialist, that would make him left wing...gawsh, that would make me like Ted Kennedy. Yikes!

NO POLITICS...THERE ARE OTHER BOARDS FOR THAT!

So, who defines what words are profane? Is $hit profane enough? What about crap? Darn? Drat? Rats? Who draws that line?

Profanity laws are worthless unless someone draws the line to ensure consistency.

If it's the "magic word" and loud and
especially directed at an umpire--
bad consequences should result !
In the local rec league back in CNY
it could mean DQ and the player gores home !
If I hear it "under the player's breath" I
might ask them -- "what did you say ??"
and give them a chance to take it back.
Or I might just say "no F-bombs-please"
and let it slide.

Kinda like trying to define "gulag", right mcrowder?

Some of you guys are making this way more complicated than what it is. The reason the rule was put in place here in ND anyway, was because of the mass number of complaints that the State ASA office was getting from both fans and players about the amount of profanity at the games.

When the rule was put in place, during our rules clinics at the beginning of the year, we were told the reason for the rule being put in place, ND ASA wanted to make softball a fan and family friendly environment. We were also told to use our judgement, your umpires, that is what you do. Now we don't want you calling outs for players saying damn or darn or god or stuff like that or for things said under a players breath. We do want outs called for stuff like S$it, F**K, motherf**cker and the such. Again, if no one hears it but you and the player, you let it go, if the fans can hear it, call it.

The first year was basically a learing year, the players learned what they could and couldn't say, and the umpires learned what they should and shouldn't call. It really isn't as big a deal as many of you are making it out to be and it isn't for everyone.

Some of you may not agree with it and that's fine, maybe its not a problem in your area or nobody minds it, but here anyway, the rule was put in place to solve a problem that ND ASA was having and it has done exactly what it was supposed to do and done it very well.

[Edited by gsf23 on Jul 18th, 2005 at 10:07 AM]

I think there should be no tolerance in the youth leagues. These are kids for God sake and even if they're hearing it at school it doesn't mean we should go ahead and let it go on on our watches.

I had a 14-u fast pitch game where the pitcher didn't like incidental contact at the plate by the runner coming home on a wild pitch. The pitcher responds..."i'm going to beat your F$%king ***" to the runner only for the coach to call me and my parter racist F$%king b#$ches while we were trying to calm his pitcher down.

Can we say BALLGAME.

Woah Woah Woah
 

sara-

I think we're on two separate pages here. In your scenario the players are swearing at the other team (threatening assault none the less) and the coach is swearing at you. I fully agree, rule in place or not, both of these people are gone immediately for USC. Any swearing directed at another player or an umpire I will toss with or without a rule.

What I'm looking at is the times when something slips and the player is not directing it at anyone but themselves (i.e. botched play in the field, striking out,) or if they get hurt and something slips out. I'd have a hard time ejecting a batter who just got hit lets something slip.

Directed at another - tossed without an extra rule in place
Directed at oneself in anger - i'm letting it slide

-Josh

gsf23 - I was there when that first went in. It took some learning curve, but I think made the game better. As I ump now in the Chicago suburbs, some leagues have the rule and others don't. I will let anything not directed at me or the opposition go, even for leagues with the rule unless I deem it can be heard by the fans. I tend not to have 'rabbit ears', so it has to be blatant. But just the threat of being ejected is often enough to keep the players from using profanity, they realize it can happen. I have had a few use a questionable word, then turn to me and apologize. I wasn't going to throw them out, but I usually just say to not let it happen again and consider this your warning and smile. I think this keeps with the intent of the rule. It isn't so much to make us 'language police', but to try to keep the game spectator and player friendly.

JMHO

I agree with you on that. I've been guilty of it myself as a player if I screwed up and popped a ball to the short stop or something embarassing like that...I've said a word or two.

In adult ball, I ignore it for the most part.

I still believe though, in youth organizations there should be no tolerance-whether it was directed at someone or not-whether it comes from a coach or player. Like it was said before, they hear worse walking down the hallways at school. I'm not going to be the one that turns a deaf ear to it. To me its a respect thing...for everyone involved.

I should have said I only do adult leagues....so it would be different if I did youth.

Most players here have learned that if you are going to let one fly, to do it quietly. I'm the same way, if it's not going to be heard by the spectators, then I will just tell the player to watch it and move on.

The last time I called it: a team of high school kids were playing one of the better teams in our league. The kids hadn't one a game all year but were hanging tough. Bottom of the seventh, one of the kids hits a two-run bomb to pull them to within one with two outs. As they are walking into the dugout after the hi-fives, one of the kids yells out, "about f$$cking time you did someting" and I mean yells it loud.

I call time, announce I have casual profanity on the dugout, point to the batter, say you are out, that's ballgame. Then the parents that were watching the game all starting to applaud and after the game I got about five thank-yous for calling it. It sticks out cause I've never had the fans of a losing team, and especially parents of the players, thank me for making a call that ended the game.

Two separate issues. USC at an umpire or opposing player is USC regardless of the language. "I'm going to kick your F$@%$ing @$$" and "I'm going to beat you senseless," will both get you ejected.

My point is that senseless "profanity" not directed at anyone harms no one. Why penalize it? Why set up the umpire to be the profanity police without giving firm direction as to what is profanity? I can easily see one umpire letting $hit go, but another one ejecting for "Crap!" What is the purpose of such a rule? And why is your league "better" for not having the contestants utter certain words? Silly, really.

Regional differences vary widely on what is acceptable public behavior. There could never (IMO) be a successful implementation of a casual profanity rule on a national basis for this reason. But, it can work well locally (and does here in MN).

For those interested, here is the written rule in force in MN ASA ball:I'm sure this very idea seems incredibly quaint to many of you. But, it works fine here.

Again, you guys aren't getting that no one is getting EJECTED for anything. An out is being called, nothing more. Also, umpires here are not going to call outs for saying crap, or damn, or god or anything like that. If they did, they wouldn't be working anymore. As far as an umpire letting it go, it's just like any other rule, it's only going to work if everyone is enforcing it. If an umpire does not want to enforce it, then they don't work.

Like was said before, it is a regional thing. Around here, that kind of behavior isn't acceptable. In your area, maybe it is, if so, then you have no use for the rule.