Infield Fly Rule - interpretations

[DaNewGuy]

In a 10u slow pitch tourny, we saw a number of IFR situations. In one game I called IFR from the plate and coaches contended that since no player TRIED to catch the ball between 3rd base and the mound, it was not applicable. My call stood.

In a 2nd game, I worked the bases and the plate umpire ruled that a popup equidistant from the plate, mound and 3b was not call-able because none of the 10-year-olds could have caught it with "ordinary effort". I disagree, but not my call.

Later in the same game a pop-up to 15 feet behind the baseline and 10 feet behind the shortstop dropped in uncaught. Defensive coach called for IFR, offensive coach contended ball was too deep for IFR and not high enough to be a fly ball. No IFR was called.

I'm looking for opinions on how others apply judgement to "ordinary effort", height of the ball, and depth of the hit.

[milkmandog]

If the ball is an obvious easy popup- I call it as soon as I see it or my partner pointing up.No effort is required. If the ball is shallow outfield I call it as soon as I see someone camped under it.If it is shallow outfield and I see an infielder running hard with back to me - no ifr. That is not ordinary effort.

[baldgriff]

I did a lot of youth this year. Just got done with a 14U State Tourney. Infield Fly is tough to call, especially when you have no idea what resonable effort for some of these kids actually is. If the infielder is camped under it then call it. If they are spinning circles under it....... well then its your judgement.

In your scenario with no one making an attempt, I would likely not have called the infield fly. Not becuase they didnt try, but becuase I cant assume what the fielders reasonable effort is (especially if I have never seen them play).

As far as to deep to be IFR? I called one last night with the 2nd baseman a good 20 feet in the grass. Of course the grass was 7 feet behinde the bases, so really he wasnt that far away frow where he was playing.

IFR is strictly judgement call. Personally I dont assume they can make a catch until I know what the ability of the player is.

[mcrowder]

Considering the purpose of the IFR (to prevent defense from intentionally failing to catch the ball and then turning an easy double play), I've always been a proponent of dropping IFR at 10U. How many 10U teams out there have enough talent to intentionally drop a fly ball in the infield and then still get 2 outs. If a coach tried to coach this - he'd likely get NO outs way more often than he'd get 2.

To answer your question, the talent level of the players DOES matter when judging ordinary effort, as the definition of ORDINARY is different for 10U, 12U, 14U, 16U, 18U. At 10U, it almost has to be right to a player's initial position (or very close), and of decent height (and little wind). At 18U, pretty much anything of decent height ANYWHERE on or near the infield is likely an IFF.

Call it at the apex. If it's not high enough for you to judge that quickly, it's probably not IFF.

[orioles35]

If you don't have time to say "Infield fly, batter's out!" Then it's not high enough to be an infield fly. My excuse to a rat in one of those situations was that it was a "soft liner" and not a "fly ball". Seemed to work well.

[CecilOne]

Once again, we're back to is it or not based on "ordinary effort"; when the purpose of the rule is to protect runners. Not to mention a defensive coach asking for a call that is supposed to favor the offense. Mike makes a good point with "How many 10U teams out there have enough talent to intentionally drop a fly ball in the infield and then still get 2 outs. If a coach tried to coach this - he'd likely get NO outs way more often than he'd get 2."
Thinking about the purpose leads to realizing that the risk to the runners occurs when
- the ball lands close enough to a fielder and a base for a play to be made and
- the flight of the ball was long enough in time for a runner(s) to get far enough off the base to be in jeopardy.
The second is more a factor in softball because of the lead restrictions. The rule was written for baseball and although it's nice to have a few rules be the same, needs to be different for softball.
The rule needs to be changed to reflect the potential effect on the runners and not the ordinary effort which we never seem to agree on.
While ordinary effort remains in the rule, it means ordinary; not skilled. At whatever level, if ordinary play could have reached the ball in time for a catch or play; it doesn't matter if the specific player makes a mistake, ignores the ball, misplays it or whatever. It only matters that a normal (non-superstar) player COULD have made the play.

[CecilOne]

And we must remember that the rule says infielder could, not that an outfielder can't and nothing about grass/dirt, baselines, or any imaginary line or distance.

[Blu_IN]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Considering the purpose of the IFR (to prevent defense from intentionally failing to catch the ball and then turning an easy double play), I've always been a proponent of dropping IFR at 10U. How many 10U teams out there have enough talent to intentionally drop a fly ball in the infield and then still get 2 outs. If a coach tried to coach this - he'd likely get NO outs way more often than he'd get 2.

To answer your question, the talent level of the players DOES matter when judging ordinary effort, as the definition of ORDINARY is different for 10U, 12U, 14U, 16U, 18U. At 10U, it almost has to be right to a player's initial position (or very close), and of decent height (and little wind). At 18U, pretty much anything of decent height ANYWHERE on or near the infield is likely an IFF.

Call it at the apex. If it's not high enough for you to judge that quickly, it's probably not IFF.

I agree that you must consider the reason behind the rule. However, intent is meaningless. Instead, I woudld suggest that it is to prevent the defense from benefiting from an error and/or misjudgement. This rule is solely to protect the offense from getting doubled up.

With that said, when you judge whether an infield fly should be called, ask yourself if dropped (or simply not caught), can the defense turn a double play thus warranting protection from the umpire. If you answer yes, then call it.

I completely agree that what is and is not an infield fly differs between age groups. Last year, 10U NSA rules excluded infield fly. They changed it for this year but I still agree that infield fly isn't really needed at that age.

[Dakota]

All good thoughts, but no one has mentioned one very important thing about the IFR at 10U.

It's a bleepin' OUT ain't it??
Call all you can get away with!!!