does run count?

[sparkysdad]

Watched an NSA girls fastpitch softball game earlier today and the following situation occurred:

The game is tied 6-6 in the 5th inning with no time left on the clock. The home team is batting with 1 out and bases loaded. Batter hits a pop fly to shallow right field. F9 catches the ball cleanly and BU signals for the 2nd out of the inning. F9 throws to F2 a little late to get R1 out who did tag up. R2 was off of 2nd when the ball was caught and never tagged up. The defensive coach instructs the F2 to throw the ball to 2nd. F4 catches the ball and steps on 2nd. BU who stayed with the play calls R2 out for failing to tag up. R1 definitely touched home plate before R2 was ruled out for the 3rd out of the inning. FWIW all of this happened bang-bang in just about the same time it took you to read this.

HTBT? If not, does the home team win 7-6 or is the game still tied and go to an inning of international tie-breaker?

BTW I'm a long time reader but this is my first post. Thanks to all for the valuable information on this forum and for any insight into the proper ruling in this situation.

[SRW]

Speaking ASA: The run would score.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by sparkysdad
Watched an NSA girls fastpitch softball game earlier today and the following situation occurred:

The game is tied 6-6 in the 5th inning with no time left on the clock. The home team is batting with 1 out and bases loaded. Batter hits a pop fly to shallow right field. F9 catches the ball cleanly and BU signals for the 2nd out of the inning. F9 throws to F2 a little late to get R1 out who did tag up. R2 was off of 2nd when the ball was caught and never tagged up. The defensive coach instructs the F2 to throw the ball to 2nd. F4 catches the ball and steps on 2nd. BU who stayed with the play calls R2 out for failing to tag up. R1 definitely touched home plate before R2 was ruled out for the 3rd out of the inning. FWIW all of this happened bang-bang in just about the same time it took you to read this.

HTBT? If not, does the home team win 7-6 or is the game still tied and go to an inning of international tie-breaker?

BTW I'm a long time reader but this is my first post. Thanks to all for the valuable information on this forum and for any insight into the proper ruling in this situation.

The moment F9 caught the fly ball, everything else became a time play which means that any runner touching the plate prior to the 3rd out scores.

[greymule]

sparkysdad:

How did the umps rule on the play you described?

A common myth among the general spectating public (and know-it-all players) is that any play in which a runner does not have to be tagged is automatically a "force" play. But as others have noted, this is a time play; the runs scores.

Various codes differ on exactly what is considered a force play, however. (Generally, this involves missed bases. Baseball and softball are different.) In ASA, as soon as the batter is put out, all force plays are off. I don't know whether NSA parallels ASA 100% in this, but I'm sure that in your play, NSA follows ASA and every other code.

[sparkysdad]

First, tell us the outs, then where the runners started.

In my original post I stated that the home team was batting with 1 out and the bases were loaded.

You just go on about the play and calling runners by their WRONG names! R1 apparently started at third, when that should be called R3 - see why?

I thought the runners were labeled with the runner closest to home having the smallest number. That is, R1 is at 3rd, R2 is at 2nd, and R3 is at 1st in a bases-loaded situation. If that's incorrect then I do apologize for being WRONG and will amend my original post as needed.

[sparkysdad]

greymule:

The umpires ruled that the run scored.

I'm a coach and a father of 4 daughters (2, 7, 10, and 12) so I guess that would put me in with the general spectating public but I'm here to learn enough to at the very least become an informed member of the general spectating public and hopefully one day an umpire if life affords me that opportunity.

Your point about as soon as the batter is put out all force plays are off makes perfect sense.

Thanks for the input despite the glaring errors in my original post.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by sparkysdad

In my original post I stated that the home team was batting with 1 out and the bases were loaded.

I thought the runners were labeled with the runner closest to home having the smallest number. That is, R1 is at 3rd, R2 is at 2nd, and R3 is at 1st in a bases-loaded situation. If that's incorrect then I do apologize for being WRONG and will amend my original post as needed.

aparkysdad,

You are correct in you arrangement of the runners. R1 would have been at 3rd, R2, at 2B, and R3 at 1B.

Obviously orangeman has not learn to read. You also stated the number of outs.
One.

Your question was answered by previous postings.

[Blu_IN]

NSA rules are the same as ASA rules concerning this matter.

The run scores. You would be suprised though how many umpires I have ran into that did not know this was the proper ruling. Seems to be a commonly misinterpreted rule.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by sparkysdad
...despite the glaring errors in my original post.

Well, welcome to posting on the board.

I had a tournament this past weekend and am just catching up with the board. I see you have already received some fine answers, and one that was somewhat less than helpful.

Force removed by the catch (BR out) for the second out. Any runners who crossed home before the third out was made score. Tagging the base to put out a runner who left early on a caught fly ball is a live ball appeal, not a force out.

I had no problem understanding your scenario.

[NSABlue]

Sparkysdad,
I had no problem understanding your original post and you've already been given the correct answer by several other posters. Run Scores.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by orangeump
can you PLEASE for the love of God learn how to type a post that makes sense?

First, tell us the outs, then where the runners started. You just go on about the play and calling runners by their WRONG names! R1 apparently started at third, when that should be called R3 - see why?


Please repost with correct info and make it make sense and more people will be able to enjoy said post. [/B]

[b]the original description and questions are perfectly clear to any SOFTBALL person.

[CecilOne]

The question about ITB if the game was tied would depend on tourney rules, as there are no time limit rules in any rule book.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by CecilOne
The question about ITB if the game was tied would depend on tourney rules, as there are no time limit rules in any rule book.

Not quite "any" rule book.

Maybe for NSA and others, but ASA Code does allow for time limits for certain games a different levels of Championship Play tournaments.

If a game is tied and time expires, the ITB is applied.

[NSABlue]

Speaking NSA here (I work mainly in MD, VA and PA)all of the tournaments I work have a time limit to the games. Usually the rule is that no new inning will start once time has expired (Usually 1:30). If we are in pool play there does not have to be a winner and the games is over even if the score is tied. On Sundays in elimination play, if the score is tied when the time expires then we use the ITB rule until we have a winner. Check your tournament rules, if there is a time limit, it's always in there.