Courtesy Runner

U_of_I_Blue · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 12:46pm

Just a quick question (ASA, NSA and FED) because I don't have access to my rulebooks for a couple days here.

If a CR is used for the catcher or pitcher, that player (whatever jersey number they are) must always be used for that position (either CR for catcher or CR for pitcher correct? If that is so, what happens when that player is used as a substitute? May the coach choose a new CR, or must the person whom the old CR replaced become the new CR.
Thanks!

-Josh

mcrowder · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 12:52pm

That person (say, #3) can only be used as a CR for the position she CR'd for (say pitcher). The rule does NOT, however, also say that no one else can be used as a CR for that same position later. So if #3 is playing SS later, #45 can be used as CR for the pitcher. (In this case, neither #3 nor #45 could be used as CR's for the catcher at any point during the game).

Also note - in a weird rule quirk. If #3 subs for #11, the pitcher in the 1st inning, and in the 3rd inning, F1-#11 and F2-#17 swap defensive positions, #3 cannot CR for #11(F2) later ... but she can CR for #17(F1).

U_of_I_Blue · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 12:55pm

MC-

Thanks for your response. I was close, just didn't quite have the details down pat. That's the same for all rule codes then right?

-Josh

Dakota · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 12:59pm

The CR can be any eligible substitute who has not yet entered the game as a starter or sub.

The restriction is on that player who was used as a CR (that is, she can only be a CR for the position she ran for).

If the team has enough eligible subs, a different CR can be used each time the F1 or F2 gets on base.

Dakota · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 01:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by U_of_I_Blue
MC-

Thanks for your response. I was close, just didn't quite have the details down pat. That's the same for all rule codes then right?

-Josh

No, there is at least one that specifies "last out". I don't recall which one.

U_of_I_Blue · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 01:05pm

I believe it's NSA, I seem to remember something quirky about their rule now that you mention it. Can anyone verify that?

-Josh

Duke · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 01:06pm

ASA

A CR runs for a position (Pitcher or Catcher). Once a CR is used at a position, that player can only CR for that position regardless of who is playing at that position. You can use multiple players as CR's at one position though. So if your Pitcher was go get on base in the 1st, 4th and 6th you could use 3 different players as CR's providing they have not yet been in the game as a substiute and have not CR'd for the Catcher.

Note that a CR must report into the game but does not need to report when leaving the game.

NSABlue · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 01:15pm

Speaking NSA.

The CR can be the last player to make an out or any available substitute. The same player can not run twice in the same inning for different players (Pitcher or catcher).
As an odd ruling as well, if the "last out" is the pitcher or catcher, they can be used as CR's also. Seems wierd to me but that's the rule.

CecilOne · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 01:26pm

Different CR can be used for each time F1 or F2 get on base, but one CR cannot replace another CR during the same "on base". If injured, F1 or F2 must run and still has to be the last player in that position on defense.

CecilOne · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 24, 2005, 01:29pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mcrowder
That person (say, #3) can only be used as a CR for the position she CR'd for (say pitcher). The rule does NOT, however, also say that no one else can be used as a CR for that same position later. So if #3 is playing SS later, #45 can be used as CR for the pitcher. (In this case, neither #3 nor #45 could be used as CR's for the catcher at any point during the game).

Also note - in a weird rule quirk. If #3 subs for #11, the pitcher in the 1st inning, and in the 3rd inning, F1-#11 and F2-#17 swap defensive positions, #3 cannot CR for #11(F2) later ... but she can CR for #17(F1).

Nice, succinct statement of a couple things it took some of us months to get across to locals and some on the forums.

David Emerling · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 25, 2005, 02:34pm

Just to add to the discussion ...

Under ASA, let's say the offense screws up and uses a CR for the pitcher when this same runner CR'd for the catcher in a previous inning.

If the umpire recognizes it, he should immediately prohibit the substitution - correct?

What if the umpire does NOT notice? This makes the runner an illegal substitute - correct? But yet, the only thing that is "illegal" about the substitution is that she is a CR. In any other respect, the player COULD substitute for the catcher, just not as a CR.

Let's say the coach announces, "#15 is running for my catcher!"

The umpire needs to have him make it clear whether this is a COURTESY runner or a PINCH runner. The player can't be a CR but she can be a substitute.

This could become a real can of worms.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Steve M · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 25, 2005, 10:01pm

David,
If I remember correctly, you are primarily baseball. And this is an area where the 2 games are identical - improper lineup card management is a disaster waiting to happen.

Your addition is about improper lineup card management and that should never happen.

I had an umpire today tell me that he wanted to keep the game moving, so he "remembered" the CCR that was used rather than note it on his card. He allowed something that should not have been allowed. The other team did not catch it, but... After we talked, he will be making the notation when the change happens - not later to speed things up. He knows he got lucky.