Should Call Be Verbal?

[tzme415]

Sitch - Adult Mens Class B Slow Pitch...I'm only ump...R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st, 1 out, Batter hits ball to F4 that short hops into glove (I make safe signal)...F4 runs over tags R1 and steps on 2B (I make out signal, Say Out and Out) ...Double play...

Offensive coach goes berzerk...How were his players supposed to know to run when I didn't say 'Safe' or 'No Catch' on the short-hopped ball?...I told him I made the safe signal and don't verbalize anything but 'Out' in that situation.

Was I wrong? Should I have yelled Safe or No Catch?

[chuck chopper]

I do say "trap", but others will tell you I am doing it wrong

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally posted by tzme415
Sitch - Adult Mens Class B Slow Pitch...I'm only ump...R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st, 1 out, Batter hits ball to F4 that short hops into glove (I make safe signal)...F4 runs over tags R1 and steps on 2B (I make out signal, Say Out and Out) ...Double play...

Offensive coach goes berzerk...How were his players supposed to know to run when I didn't say 'Safe' or 'No Catch' on the short-hopped ball?...I told him I made the safe signal and don't verbalize anything but 'Out' in that situation.

Was I wrong? Should I have yelled Safe or No Catch?

It is THEIR problem if they don't know enough that they keep running until somebody says FOUL or OUT.....

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally posted by tzme415
Sitch - Adult Mens Class B Slow Pitch...I'm only ump...R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st, 1 out, Batter hits ball to F4 that short hops into glove (I make safe signal)...F4 runs over tags R1 and steps on 2B (I make out signal, Say Out and Out) ...Double play...

Offensive coach goes berzerk...How were his players supposed to know to run when I didn't say 'Safe' or 'No Catch' on the short-hopped ball?...I told him I made the safe signal and don't verbalize anything but 'Out' in that situation.

Was I wrong? Should I have yelled Safe or No Catch?

It is acceptable, and probably desirable to verbalize in this play; I would use "no catch".

How were his players supposed to know? What was this offensive coach doing at the time? Isn't that why they have base coaches, to tell the runners when to run?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by AtlUmpSteve


It is acceptable, and probably desirable to verbalize in this play; I would use "no catch".

Just make sure that whatever you use doesn't sound like any other call you make. I'm with Stever, usually state "no catch" basically because it is two words that do not sound like anything else I call.

[orioles35]

Sounds like if the shortstop was short-hopped, it wouldn't have mattered WHAT you said, they were going to have a double play anyway.

Another case of blaming the umpire for a team's misfortunes.

[U of M Sam]

My take is simple: Be very clear if you verbalize a call such as "safe" or "no catch" during the situation described. "No catch" could sound like "catch" when verbalized along with all the noise of the game. I tend to say "NO" when a ball is not caught during a play as you mention.
Coaches will sometimes try to shift their lack or responsibility or situation knowledge toward the umpire, which I think is "goofy". The runners have a responsibility to know the situation and adjust accordingly. When I played high school baseball, I was always taught to run until you hear "foul" or even "out" depending on the situation.

[Andy]

I would be against using a verbal call in this situation. Players and coaches may only hear the "catch" part of "NO catch". If you yell out "SAFE" before F6 throws the ball, the players may wonder what you're talking about.

Either way...you will probably get some grief, but I think a non-verbal signal is the way to go here.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Andy
I would be against using a verbal call in this situation. Players and coaches may only hear the "catch" part of "NO catch". If you yell out "SAFE" before F6 throws the ball, the players may wonder what you're talking about.

Either way...you will probably get some grief, but I think a non-verbal signal is the way to go here.

I don't believe "SAFE" is an appropriate call. The runners and BR are still in jeopardy and a force situation. No one is yet safe.

It is important to be and I am quite clear. Two words, "NO" & "CATCH".

[streamdoc]

Don't say anything in this situation. Just like you don't say "fair ball", you point fair and only verbalize if it is foul. Don't give them any opportunity to tell you that they thought you said one thing, when you actually said the opposite. Also, the players and coaches need keep their heads in the game, and be paying attention. Verbalizing a call in this situation, and others (touched flyball, etc.) can potentially give one team an advantage over the other.

[BuggBob]

ASA rule 10-7-M. Trapped ball call and signal "Safe"

[streamdoc]

So it does say that. I still wouldn't say "no catch" thought, and probably won't say "safe" either until someone tells me to.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by BuggBob
ASA rule 10-7-M. Trapped ball call and signal "Safe"

I stand corrected. Don't agree with it, but that is what the book states.

[scottk_61]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

I stand corrected. Don't agree with it, but that is what the book states.

You know Mike, that many mamebers of the NUS are advocating to call it the way you said it before, maybe that is where you got the idea.
I know I have heard Henry and Merle (in the past) and other members of the staff say it your way.
I know I had changed to it a few years back.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by scottk_61

You know Mike, that many mamebers of the NUS are advocating to call it the way you said it before, maybe that is where you got the idea.
I know I have heard Henry and Merle (in the past) and other members of the staff say it your way.
I know I had changed to it a few years back.

It is unfortunate that they don't always have the time to cover every inch of the book and changes are made at the instructional level, but not the book. Present administration states there will be an attempt to rectify that situation and I have no reason not to believe it will happen.