What's your opinion?

[Illinois blue]

I see a lot of threads saying that if the ball hits the bat, play on. But, if the bat hits the ball, dead ball interference. I bought a book written by the NFHS Officials Education Program. The book is called Officiating Softball sponsored by NFHS. This book says it doesn't matter which does which, the only determination is where the ball is when the fielder touches it(fair or foul). It's on page 50 if anyone else has bought this book. So, what do you guys and gals think now?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Illiniois blue
I see a lot of threads saying that if the ball hits the bat, play on. But, if the bat hits the ball, dead ball interference. I bought a book written by the NFHS Officials Education Program. The book is called Officiating Softball sponsored by NFHS. This book says it doesn't matter which does which, the only determination is where the ball is when the fielder touches it(fair or foul). It's on page 50 if anyone else has bought this book. So, what do you guys and gals think now?

You need to make up your mind whether you are talking about a discarded bat, or a fielder contacting a ground ball near the lines.

[chuck chopper]

If we are talking discarded bat after hitting the ball, I like the rule just like it is !, all we need is batters throwing the bat into foul territory to avoid the ball with back spin coming back & hitting the bat..and then we would have a whole new set of issues.

[Illinois blue]

Mike, I mean the batter swings or bunts the ball and then the bat hits the ball or the ball hits the bat. I always thought it made a difference if the bat hit the ball(int.) or the ball hit the bat(play on). According to this book it makes no difference, you play it. If the ball rolls foul it is foul, if it stays fair it's a fair ball, no interference.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Illiniois blue
Mike, I mean the batter swings or bunts the ball and then the bat hits the ball or the ball hits the bat. I always thought it made a difference if the bat hit the ball(int.) or the ball hit the bat(play on). According to this book it makes no difference, you play it. If the ball rolls foul it is foul, if it stays fair it's a fair ball, no interference.

Okay, so if I hear you right, Federation is saying that if the batter drops the bat on a fair, bunted ball, the umpire should not call interference.

Is that correct? If so, doesn't that seem a little, well, strange?

[mcrowder]

And, well..., contradictory to what is actually written in the rulebook?

[Illinois blue]

I am just relaying information written by the NFHS. So what are you umps going to call when the batter bunts, and the bat accidently hits the ball and the ball stays fair or rolls foul?

[mcrowder]

When a bat hits a ball a second time (in fair territory), I have an out (except when such bat is still held by the batter and the batter is still in the box). I got that crazy idea from the rulebook (almost a direct quote there).

I think it might be enlightening for you to actually tell us what your book says - instead of simply alluding to some possibly misconstrued ruling that applies in a specific case. I doubt the general populus here is going to run and go buy your book just to know what it is you're referring to.

[Illinois blue]

Quote from the book---"If the bat is out of the batter's hands (dropped or thrown ) and the ball and bat come in contact with each other a second time, the ball remains alive and would be fair or foul depending on its location to the foul line. It makes no difference if the bat hits the ball or the ball hits the bat. However, if the batter intentionally hits the ball a second time, the ball is dead, the batter is out and all runners return." What do you think now, mcrowder, or anyone else?

[mcrowder]

I'm thinking I would make every effort to contact either the authors or perhaps someone up my chain of command to find out why the authors put in a statement so clearly in contradiction to the rules, and if this is supposed to be a new interpretation of the rules (or even a future FED rule change), or if it's just a mistake.

Books like this DO have mistakes on occasion. And often, rulings in books like this do not hold up in protest meetings, when the rulebook clearly states something different.

A conundrum, no doubt.

[Illinois blue]

Mcrowder, please tell me what rule explains that the batter is out if the bat hits the ball. I need to get this clear in my mind before it happens. I know it will sometime. Thanks for your help.

[Ed Maeder]

This is a rule difference between ASA and NFHS rules. In NFHS hitting a fair batted ball a second time will not rule the batter out, unless the act is determined to be intentional. In ASA any time the bat hits the ball a second time over fair territory, it is considered intentional and the batter is ruled out. Also in NFHS if the bat hits the ball in foul territory and the ball has a chance to become fair the batter is out if the umpire felt the act was intentional. Just a foul ball in ASA. In NFHS it has to be ruled intentional and in ASA it is ruled intentional. Different rule for different associations. NFHS 7-4-1-k ASA 7-6-J&K

[Dakota]

Sometimes we get so ASA-centric on this board, we think we know the NFHS rule, but don't actually look it up.

ASA 7-6-K

The batter is out when the batter hits a fair ball with the bat a second time in fiar territory.
EXCEPTION...
2. If the batter drops the bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory, and, in the umpires judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the batter is not out and the ball is live and in play.

In ASA, since the exception specically says "ball rolls against the bat", the exception does not apply if the bat rolls agaisnt the ball, hence the batter is out.

Compare with NFHS 7-4-1-K

A batter shall be called out when after hitting or bunting a ball, she intentionally hits the ball a second time in fair or foul territory; the ball is dead, no runer(s) advance and the batter is out.

See the differences? In NFHS, intent is required, even over fair territory. No ball to bat or bat to ball component in the rule. Just intent. The NFHS rule goes on to note that if contact is made over foul territory, the ball must have had a chance to become fair, in the umpire's judgment. In ASA, contact over foul territory is a foul ball.

[Illinois blue]

Thank you gentlemen, now I know. In Fed ball there is no out if ball hits bat or bat hits ball unless done intentionally. Clear now!

[CecilOne]

Although, the ASA rule says "the batter hits a fair ball with the bat "; which might imply that a bat hitting a ball after release by the batter is not hit by the batter unless it is intentionally directed at the ball.

While we were at it, I was hoping for a comparison to NCAA.