walk steal?

[softbllmom]

This forum is great thanks for the answers to my previous question.
Last nite we had a runner who was walked....catcher threw ball back to pitcher she had the ball in her glove and the runner went right around 1st and stole 2nd.
I thought once the ball was in her glove the play was dead?
This is a girls league 12-14 year olds. As far as I can tell we are going by fast pitch rules. I have never seen anything like this league.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by softbllmom
I thought once the ball was in her glove the play was dead?

Speaking ASA FP. No, it isn't. The ball is live. The look back rule goes into effect when the batter-runner reaches 1st base, but this runner did not violate the look back rule. Her advance was legal.

[mcrowder]

BR could have scored have scored had she kept running and F1 never made a play on her.

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by Dakota

Speaking ASA FP. No, it isn't. The ball is live. The look back rule goes into effect when the batter-runner reaches 1st base, but this runner did not violate the look back rule. Her advance was legal.

Actually, this is not limited to just ASA. As far as I know, this is true of all codes.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Skahtboi
Actually, this is not limited to just ASA. As far as I know, this is true of all codes.

I wasn't sure but what there were still a few codes who had the LBR go into effect when the pitcher has the ball in the circle, leaving out the BR reaching 1st part.

[NSABlue]

Originally posted by softbllmom
As far as I can tell we are going by fast pitch rules. I have never seen anything like this league.

What set of fast pitch rules are you playing under?
ASA, NSA, NFHS, PONY, Little League, Babe Ruth? It will help everyone if you can find out. That way,you can get all your questions answered for the particular league you're playing in.

[coachfanmom]

ok....I need clarification on this one because we do it all the time. If I have a runner on third and 1 and 2 are unoccupied and my girl gets a walk, she KNOWS to automaticlly take off headed for 2nd. But I was under the impression that if the pitcher has the ball in the circle by the time she reaches first that the play is now dead and she can't advance to 2nd.

[mcrowder]

Nope.

The pitcher's mound is not a "stop button". The ball is not dead. In fact, it is never dead until the umpire says "Dead ball!" or "Foul Ball!"

LBR kicks in when the A) the pitcher has the ball in the circle, B) the BR has achieved first base, and C) no play is being made on a runner by the pitcher.

At the moment LBR kicks in, any runner stationary on a base must stay there. Any runner stationary between bases must decide which way to run (1-mississippi, 2-mississippi) and run that way without stopping (unless pitcher makes a play, thus removing LBR). Any runner not stationary between bases may A) continue running in that direction or B) stop - decide which way to run (1-mississippi, 2-mississippi) and run that way without stopping.

So, to stretch this to the ridiculous, a walked BR may, while the ball is in the circle and the pitcher is not making a play, run past first, past 2nd, past 3rd, stop inches from home plate, finally hear her coach yelling "You missed first, you missed first!", stop, decide which way to go, run to 3rd, 2nd, and stop on 1st, and never violate the LBR. (Of course, if at any time during this the pitcher leaves the circle or makes a play (including a fake throw), the LBR is off until F1 reenters the circle and doesn't make a play --- giving the runner the legal ability to stop again, decide again, and proceed, even if she made a stop before LBR was taken off).

[SRW]

mcrowder: Great description and explination!

[coachfanmom]

see I learn something new here everyday!!! That's good to know.....ohhhhhhhhh why can't I have a game tonight????

[streamdoc]

The LBR would not impact the BR that draws a walk, proceeds to 1st, then to 2nd without stopping. However, would the LBR go into effect for the other runners on base (3rd in this case) if the pitcher has control of the ball within the cirlce, and does not "make a play" on the BR proceeding to 2nd? ASA Rule 8-7-T defines the LBR as going into effect when "the BR has TOUCHED 1st base or has been declared out, and the pitcher has possession and control of the ball within the pitcher's circle." So, the way that I read that would give a free pass to the BR to reach 2nd because so long as the pitcher doesn't make a ply on her, the runner on 3rd has to stay on the bag. Is this right?

[CecilOne]

Yep.

[mcrowder]

Troy, that's a LITTLE misleading. Only in that you say LBR would not IMPACT a walked BR who goes to 2nd. Technically you're right, but I think that statement could easily be misread to lead someone to assume LBR is not in EFFECT on that runner. It is. In effect, that is. But it doesn't IMPACT her unless she violates what she's allowed to do while LBR is in effect.

LBR goes "into effect" on BOTH runners the moment BR touches 1st - and BOTH runners are allowed to do exactly what I describe in the above post. (IE - if your runner at 3rd was moving slowly toward the plate at the moment BR touched 1st, she could still continue toward home, stop once, decide, and then proceed either home or back to third).

Regarding your "free pass" comment - an astute defense will have pitcher face 3rd base on this play. When jogging BR gets about 4 steps from 2nd - fire to 2nd for the easy out, and right back to pitcher (or home if the runner takes off). Most BR's are shocked to see the ball coming, and freeze (failing to return to 1st, and get tagged). There's no reason for defense to make this a free pass if they can throw and catch with any success at all.

Another version of this that I like much less is throwing the ball to 1st baseman, who stands 1 foot past the bag at first. BR can't very well proceed past first or get tagged out, and that's usually too close for a coach to feel comfortable sending the runner from 3rd.

I implore all of you coaches out there to devise a successful defense to this so that offenses cut out the nonsense and we can simply get back to playing ball.

[Andy]

Originally posted by coachfanmom
ok....I need clarification on this one because we do it all the time. If I have a runner on third and 1 and 2 are unoccupied and my girl gets a walk, she KNOWS to automaticlly take off headed for 2nd. But I was under the impression that if the pitcher has the ball in the circle by the time she reaches first that the play is now dead and she can't advance to 2nd.

When you use this play, and the pitcher is not making a play on either runner, the runner on third must commit one way or the other once the batter runner reaches first.

I had a team trying to use this play last weekend, but the runner on third started juking back and forth after the BR had reached first and the pitcher was not making any play.

DEAD BALL....RUNNERS OUT!

[coachfanmom]

Originally posted by Andy

When you use this play, and the pitcher is not making a play on either runner, the runner on third must commit one way or the other once the batter runner reaches first.

I had a team trying to use this play last weekend, but the runner on third started juking back and forth after the BR had reached first and the pitcher was not making any play.

DEAD BALL....RUNNERS OUT!

Only time my 3rd base runner will proceed to home is if they make a play on my walked batter that's going to 2nd....if they make the throw to get her out then we score.... You'd be amazed at how many times this play works in league ball....they still haven't caught on and only two more games to go.