Interference Mess

[wadeintothem]

Varsity Game - Fed

I'm PU, BU in C, R1 @ 2B.

sharp grounder to F6 who checks R1 and throws to 1B. BR is hauling *** in the infield (not in lane) and we have what appears to be the makings of a bang bang play..

then crash.. BR hits F3 (in a normal stretch towards F6) and the ball goes sailing by. I call dead ball INT BR out.

I have to reiterate dead ball out because everyone pretends like I didnt just call dead ball BR out and keeps playing.

I hear BU coming in from C in what is a brain fart or I dont know what say :"No No No train wreck". Luckily he doesnt approach me and heads more towards 1B where he proceeds to get an earfull from the the 1B coach.

needless to say O coach from 3B has come in and is now wanting me to appeal to BU.

Now, heres where it gets tricky and I will have to call my UIC tomorrow and make sure I did OK.. the BU is a long long time umpire... but he messed up IMO.

I denied it. I was not aobut to grant an appeal and go and discuss a play with a BU who has announced his opinion. Besides he was in C and I was watching the play at 1B very closely, especially with runner so far out of the lane. So I refused going to my partner and the play stood.

Coach is pissed saying that I had to go to the BU if she asks and the crowd is of course ticked off..

A few plays later on a close steal at 2B BU makes a call which is close.. but of course the visitor crowd thinks he is giving a maker upper for my call since they all heard him make his opinion known as well.

So all is lost and crowd is hostile thru end of game.. but thats about what happened..

At the end of game he reiterated the train wreck opinion and said the ball had already passed F3- and I stated that the reason I didnt go to him was his announcing his opinion..

thoughts?

[Edited by wadeintothem on May 3rd, 2005 at 12:47 AM]

[SC Ump]

I see this as getting down to whose call was it. A 3-foot lane violation is the PU's call. The remainder of the play at first is the BU's call.

Some organizations state, and many umpire's feel, that with the 3-foot lane the ball must be thrown from the home plate area or the catcher. Fed does not state this.

However, I still do not believe this was a violation of the 3-foot lane. Being out of the three foot lane is required on the last step, since the bag is in fair territory. Also, in my understanding of your description, the contact was made prior to the ball getting there.

Now, as to the question of whether the runner intentionally bowled F3 over, or malaciously contacted her, that is a different question. I believe that if the BU had asked your opinion on either of these questions, that you should have given it.

[mcrowder]

Even though I agree that it sounds like (barring malicious contact, which you didn't allude to) you missed this one, the far more egregious error here was by BU for contradicting you loudly enough that players and coaches heard it. That's unforgivable, even if you had made the biggest mistake ever made.

On the other hand... fear of hearing information that makes your call wrong is not a good enough reason to not go to BU. Even if you go to BU to ask what he saw, it's YOUR call to stick with or overturn. Probably should have gone to talk with him, and if you weren't convinced you missed something, stick with your call.

[wadeintothem]

in my assoc INT is PUs call but of course anyone can make it.. But are guys saying I should have let him make the call and then if D coach wanted to appeal to me do it that way?

The runner caused the fielder to miss the ball - i felt dead ball INT was justified so I did it.

I didnt feel train wreck was valid at all.

I'll admit though I didnt go to BU out of aggravation of him saying his opinion loud enough for everyone to hear.

Thanks for your input on this.

[mcrowder]

I'm trying to visualize how you could have running lane interference on a ball fielded by the shortstop (keeping in mind that the final step of the batter - the one going for the base - is NECESSARILY out of the lane, as the base is not in the lane.

I can understand your frustration at your partner - what he did was uncalled for. But for game-management's sake, I probably would have gone for at least a token conversation with him when coach asked.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by wadeintothem
Varsity Game - Fed

I'm PU, BU in C, R1 @ 2B.

sharp grounder to F6 who checks R1 and throws to 1B. BR is hauling *** in the infield (not in lane) and we have what appears to be the makings of a bang bang play..

then crash.. BR hits F3 (in a normal stretch towards F6) and the ball goes sailing by. I call dead ball INT BR out.

From this statement, it appears F3 does not have the ball, not attempting to
field a batted ball; not attempting to throw the ball; and [maybe HTBT] not
intentionally interferring with a thrown ball.
NFHS has stated
there are no *train wrecks*. Either defender has the ball or does not. This
could have been OBS. I don't see running lane being a factor. You did not
state if contact malicious or not so, gotta figure it was just a runner trying
to complete her mission. I agree, partner did not help the situation.

I have to reiterate dead ball out because everyone pretends like I didnt just call dead ball BR out and keeps playing.

I hear BU coming in from C in what is a brain fart or I dont know what say :"No No No train wreck". Luckily he doesnt approach me and heads more towards 1B where he proceeds to get an earfull from the the 1B coach.

needless to say O coach from 3B has come in and is now wanting me to appeal to BU.

Now, heres where it gets tricky and I will have to call my UIC tomorrow and make sure I did OK.. the BU is a long long time umpire... but he messed up IMO.

I denied it. I was not aobut to grant an appeal and go and discuss a play with a BU who has announced his opinion. Besides he was in C and I was watching the play at 1B very closely, especially with runner so far out of the lane. So I refused going to my partner and the play stood.

Coach is pissed saying that I had to go to the BU if she asks and the crowd is of course ticked off..

A few plays later on a close steal at 2B BU makes a call which is close.. but of course the visitor crowd thinks he is giving a maker upper for my call since they all heard him make his opinion known as well.

So all is lost and crowd is hostile thru end of game.. but thats about what happened..

At the end of game he reiterated the train wreck opinion and said the ball had already passed F3- and I stated that the reason I didnt go to him was his announcing his opinion..

thoughts?

[Edited by wadeintothem on May 3rd, 2005 at 12:47 AM]

[wadeintothem]

hmm only thing I can see is maybe I should have ejected (would have been my 2nd benching for this team this year) for hitting F3. I Definately dont see OBS.. a stretching F3 for a throw is the essential play in SB. Cant have runners running inside and running them over. They can take their side of the base like every other time a play is made in 1B and not be inside.

[TwoBits]

Was this play in a state that doesn't use a double-first base?

If a double-first base is used, it's definitely an interference in this play, correct?

[wadeintothem]

its a fed game and no double base... which was not the issue to me. I'm not big on the double base.

BRs and F3 have gotten along famously for generations... there is a way for a bang bang play at B1 without collision when F3 is positioned properly, which she was.

I think the answer was maybe I should have ejected the player... not just called the out. I think the coach teaches this kind of baserunning. I have ejected a player of hers before and been close on other occassions.

Another error was obviously not going to BU.. but he shouldnt have put announced public pressure on reversing that call that way so I'll live with that. I bet he doesnt do that again.

[Edited by wadeintothem on May 4th, 2005 at 10:40 AM]