association opinion

[Little Jimmy]

Four years ago when I started doing high school ball I was told that I would have to join association A. No problem. Association A has been good to me giving me high school ball from March to May, with a little ASA ball thrown in in the summertime. But now USSSA is comming to town, getting their foot in the door by doing some ball that association A doesn't handle. I could easily do the U trip ball with no scheduling conflicts but I'm getting a sense from my fellow ASA members that I would be going to the "other side".

I know many of you are affiliated with different groups. Anyone feel pressure? Honest opinions from either side would be appreiciated.

[buddha69]

I would not do U trip in my area, the guy that runs it does not pay you on time! I have seen these U trip Umps down here and they are not organize. You would have one ump wearing shorts, and the other pants.

I seen a game here that became out of hand, and the umps did not do anything to stop if before it became something that it should have not been.

Plus U trip lets them us the illegal bat we don't us in ASA. Those balls come off the bats really quick.

[JEL]

Originally posted by Little Jimmy
Four years ago when I started doing high school ball I was told that I would have to join association A. No problem. Association A has been good to me giving me high school ball from March to May, with a little ASA ball thrown in in the summertime. But now USSSA is comming to town, getting their foot in the door by doing some ball that association A doesn't handle. I could easily do the U trip ball with no scheduling conflicts but I'm getting a sense from my fellow ASA members that I would be going to the "other side".

I know many of you are affiliated with different groups. Anyone feel pressure? Honest opinions from either side would be appreiciated.

I am affiliated with one association. I am registered to call ASA, Dixie Youth/Boys, NFHS baseball, and NFHS softball. Our association also does NCAA SB and BB scrimmage and JV games, and an occassional fill in for conference games. We also do USSSA baseball tournies when they come to town.

My allegiance is to my association, but if I am asked to work elsewhere I will always run it by my assignor so no conflicts arise. If "greener pastures" arise, I wouldn't hesitate to "jump the fence" but I would make sure of what I was about to do.

The group I am with does training, insuring, socializing and so forth. We are all from different walks of life, different shapes, colors, sexes and such, but we all have the commonality of umpiring, and we are all considered to be friends as well as colleagues. To much good for me to want to rock the boat.

Talk with your assignor or UIC, maybe association A could pick up the U-Trip stuff, and solve your problem.

[Dakota]

In my area, my HS ball association does not do anything BUT HS for softball (i.e. they do other sports as well, but with softball, they only do HS).

My ASA "association" is really nothing more than a game assignor - there is no real organization.

My AFA affiliation is without any formal relationship at all. No association. No regular assignor. I get games from time to time because I know the people involved very well.

I have also done some games on the side for my local Jr Hi to help out the local kids.

I handle the conflict by following these principles:

1. My first loyalty is to games I have committed to.
2. My second loyalty is to my HS assoication during the HS season.
3. My second loyalty is to my ASA assignor during the ASA season.

(Yeah, I know - two second loyalties - but they don't overlap much & where they do #1 rules).

Most of the guys in my HS association are also in another association for ASA ball. A few are in another association for AFA ball. Fewer still only to HS for softball.

If you run afoul of your local associations sensibilities wrt "loyalty" you may pay the price in games assigned, even if their loyalty is misplaced. In my experience, if you try to "trap" people into doing something to avoid punishment, etc., that will only work for a limited amount of time until people can figure out how to escape. Not a good long term plan for your association to adopt, IMO.

[Edited by Dakota on Mar 17th, 2005 at 09:38 AM]

[whiskers_ump]

I belong to several associations...NFHS, NCAA, ASA, AFA, USSSA, and even USFA.

With the exception of NFHS,NCAA, all tournaments, (well again an exception - cause
Nationals/States pay by check) pay at the plate. Only ASA has complained about
my belonging to other associations. (However, this lady complaines about a
lot of things). AFA is the primary ball locally, but I
have no problems
working with any of the other associations.

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by buddha69
I would not do U trip in my area, the guy that runs it does not pay you on time! I have seen these U trip Umps down here and they are not organize. You would have one ump wearing shorts, and the other pants.

I seen a game here that became out of hand, and the umps did not do anything to stop if before it became something that it should have not been.

Plus U trip lets them us the illegal bat we don't us in ASA. Those balls come off the bats really quick.

Sounds like you are talking about an extremely disorganized gang of outlaw umpires, not true USSSA umps. USSSA does allow the state UICs to decide how to run the state programs by and large, but there are some things that do come down from the national office.

USSSA does not, as an organization, allow the banned bats. This is pure misinformation. As a matter of fact, last year at a clinic I attended here in Texas, we got the same, and I do mean the exact same, banned bat list that they have in ASA and NFHS.

In North Texas, there is an attempt at training USSSA umpires. There are clinics held, just like with ASA, where rules and mechanics are discussed/demonstrated and worked on.

Now, is there a certain amount of animosity between the two organizations? Yes. Should there be? No. I see the same teams, and often the same umpires, playing ASA, USSSA...etc. My association, a state association as far as ASA is concerned, works several cities in the North Texas area, and some want to play ASA and others want to play USSSA. Therefore, most of our umpires certify for both. In our case, it is more about serving our customers than about anything else.

[Little Jimmy]

Thanks for the replies. There's not a right answer one way or the other. Some of the principles on both sides go back a ways with bad blood between them. But all this happened before I came on the scene and the explanations get muddy. I'll figure it out.

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by Little Jimmy
...I could easily do the U trip ball with no scheduling conflicts but I'm getting a sense from my fellow ASA members that I would be going to the "other side"....

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that one of the item that distinguishes an "independent contractor" relationship from that of an "employee/employer" is that employers can prohibit employees from working for other organizations. If one organization is stating that you cannot work for another, or in other means punishing you for doing so, then that jeopardizes their right to be acquiring your independent contracting services. In other words, they will have to pay FICA taxes and other employer stated mandated fees for you, as well as provide you with the benefits as they would a employee of their organization. I would imagine they don't want to do that.

[rhsc]

Dan, what part of SC? (south carolina?)

[rhsc]

Dan, what part of SC?(south carolina?)

[Tex]

In my area, about 80% of the umpires do NFHS, ASA, and USSSA. We travel to tournaments in different cities, regular league play games of both ASA and USSSA, etc. There are not any problems. Even have many of the same teams playing in the ASA and USSSA tournaments. This area tries not to schedule ASA and USSSA tournaments to conflict with each other. All of us attend the required clinics, take the tests, pay the dues, etc. for each association. Many travel with all three shirts and caps in our cars. Just have to remember which shirt / cap to wear and which rule book we follow for the game. There are enough games for all. If done properly, everyone wins.

[BuggBob]

Like most associations we started out ASA. But early on we decided that if softball was going to be played in our area (Northwest Washington state) WE were going to be the umpires. So when USSSA came to town (in the 1980's) we bought red shirts, when NSA came to town we bought white shirts. The High school Umpires were always part of the association, but were added officially a few years ago (when the schools stopped paying umpires directly at game time) to make paying umpires easier. Since all umpires are assigned and paid from a central pool, we are able to assign umpires based upon their ability, and to cover all the games without undue stress. Each National Association has a local UIC who has a non-voting position on our board-of- directors. So far it worked out quite well for all the umpires and all of the leagues we service.

Bob Miller
President Whatcom County Umpires Association

[whiskers_ump]

Welcome to the board, BuggBob

[Bandit]

Dakota : What is your wesite address. I tried to email you but your profile won't allow it ?

[Dakota]

I pulled my email from all public boards after the spammers got sophisticated enough to have these web spiders that would harvest email addresses even when they were supposedly not public.

Sorry.

However, you can contact me using the private message service at eteamz. I'm known as Iceblue over there.

Also, glen, Rachel, Mike Rowe and a few others have my email address. I don't mind my email address being provided privately to individuals; I just don't want it posted publicly. Perhaps with the improvement in spam filters I should reconsider, but for now, that is the way it is.

My web site is Softball Umpires.