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Thu Mar 17, 2005, 01:55pm
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If you say
"Is it ethical to cheat on a test" The answer is going to be 99% no. Of course its not. Cheat implies you break a rule. To break a rule, there must be a rule to begin with. "Is it ethical to download the ASA exam and answers and study them when your local org doesnt even require you to take the exam to begin with". Thats a little diferent. I would say the umpire that downloaded the exam and answers and studies them is MORE ethical than his local peer that didnt do any study. Its certainly not cheating, since he isnt even required to take the exam.
__________________
ASA, NCAA, NFHS 
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Thu Mar 17, 2005, 01:59pm
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Another area passes out the tests with instructions for their umpires to take them home and answer the questions using their rule book and case book. One of those umpires tries to find the answers on the internet instead of looking them up. Is ASA National going to get involved? No. Is that umpire unethical? Yes. I agree, but thats not what he said happened. He said he had already took the test. Still unethical?!?
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Thu Mar 17, 2005, 04:19pm
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I know that you tried to end it, Mick. But I haven't put my two cents in yet.
For whatever it is worth, I receive an answer sheet every year with my NFHS test. I take the test, then check my answers. The ones that I miss (darn few) I use the reference to look it up. If I didn't have the answer sheet, there would be no reason to take the test. (I am not going to spend the time looking up every question to find the correct answer.) Michigan ASA does not send me a test with my registration. To satisfy my own interest, I download the test and the answers. Do the same as with the FED test. For my personal training purposes, taking the test, checking the answers, and only looking up the wrongs ones is all the time that I want to spend on it. This is a logical teaching process. Having answer sheets available is not in itself unethical nor cheating. Only if the organization wishes to control the test environment and determine advancement or umpire opportunities based on test results should any ethics issues arise. WMB Actually it looks like I got 98 cents worth in! 
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Thu Mar 17, 2005, 04:58pm
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Quote:
I got a feelin' you look up some of the correct ones, too. Yer not gonna let Fed say that yer right, and then just leave it alone.  mick
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Fri Mar 18, 2005, 08:13am
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Thanks
Well a pretty good job was done for two pages . Yes i agree with all the suggestions. Going to clinics, self-studying , watching vet umpires and hanging around boards like this one is all definetly going to make me a better umpire.
I am thinking because I am an ex-professional student, currently not taking classes, I have been interested in minimum input -maximum output.. I am not talking about laziness or half A$$ing it, more of an efficency kind of thing. Specifically referring to the practice of looking up answers, I just think that the current method is not very efficent. Do I have a better way, maybe, but some people have morality issues with it. IMO, having the references available to look up the answers ,then looking up the answers and thinking about them works for me. a Kind of get in,get the job done,go home. Passing tests around here is NOT my goal. being an ex-professional student I can figure out what kind of grade I will get ,before the test ,by the amount of time spent studying. My goal is to become the best official I can in the most timely and efficent manner.
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Fri Mar 18, 2005, 08:50am
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Re: Thanks
Passing tests around here is NOT my goal. being an ex-professional student I can figure out what kind of grade I will get ,before the test ,by the amount of time spent studying. My goal is to become the best official I can in the most timely and efficent manner. [/B][/QUOTE] Very well put chess.  Some of the more sr member i guess feel threatened by this, but I dont believe if will change unless, like some others have said, it it handled differently. Times have changed and the way this stuff like this is delt with has to change or it will continue and escalade. I still think the test link was ok based on what supposedly happened.
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Fri Mar 18, 2005, 09:46am
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Re: Re: Thanks
Quote:
The Case Book is one big umpire test with answers given. The ASA test comes mostly from the case book. If you truly want the answers only to learn, the case book covers not just this year's test, but last year's, and the years before that, and most likely next year's. If 3m wanted his test graded, that offer was made and rejected. Hence, the assumption he wanted to cheat. His protestations to the contrary, his words, actions, and attitudes on this site do not support his claims of innocence. It is also bad form to use two different user names to appear create someone who agrees with you. Yes, Cadillac is trying to keep up with the times, but why bring them in to it?
__________________
Tom
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Fri Mar 18, 2005, 11:25am
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Personally, I was never trying to make the point that cheating on the test is unethical (it may be ... but that was not my point).
I was trying to say that an umpire (A) who gets his answers from the internet, instead of taking a couple of hours to look up those he doesn't know and reading peripheral rules to those questions (B), is going to be a weaker umpire. To that note - someone who publicly lists, in an area visited freely by newer umpires, an easy way for such umpires to find the answers, thus facilitating his becoming (A) instead of (B), is the unethical one. Especially since he'd previously been summarily lambasted for merely ASKING for the answers, and knew the general opinion of those on this site. It was unethical to post the location of these answers. It was spiteful to do so after being told it was unethical. Are the answers available out there on the net every year? Probably. Has it been easy in the past to find such answers? Not so much. Is it easy now? Yes - thanks to said unethical and spiteful "umpire". Did the unethical and spiteful actions of said "umpire" weaken our profession. Surely so.
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Sat Mar 26, 2005, 10:43am
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2d year umpire
My first year was filled with uncertainty about the mechanics. I was blessed by working through the season with more experienced umpires who had the patience, knowledge and temperance to assist in my molding. Mistakes made? Quite a few but minimized over the season. Questions? A lot with good answers by the rules.
BTW, my vocabulary is extensive because my mom and my teachers had me use a dictionary to find the correct spelling and definitions. My math is strong because I worked the problems then checked the answers. I like the format because I retain more information than if it were given to me.
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Sun Mar 27, 2005, 09:11pm
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Re: no test
Quote:
Some areas do use the term certify when their umpires meet the terms required to qualify for championship play in that state/metro area.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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