Fed BOO

[Roger Greene]

WMB made a statement in another thread that I wanted to make a new thread on:

"7-2-2 Effect specifically states that the improper batter is not called out. “Any other outs on the play stand.: Mike’s beloved 3 outs on a BOO will not happen in NFHS games.

The Test said “all outs made on the play stand. The Test is WRONG!

WMB"
*******************************

That is what I thought too, but then I went back and reviewed the rule.

The 2005 Rule book states:

7-2-2 Effect- "The umpire shall declare the batter who should have batted out (not the improper batter). Any other outs on the play stand."

The 2004 rule book is exactly the same.

My 2003 rule book is MIA.

The 2002 rule book said:
7-2-2, "Exception: Any outs made on the play stand. An out for batting out of order supersedes an out made by the improper batter on a play."

[This was the wording from the time I started Fed untill 2002.]

I do not recall this being listed as a rule change in 2003, but I would argue the rule now allows an out made by the improper batter to stand, in addition to the out on the batter who should have batted. It appears the rule now is congruent with ASA (as I understand Mikes interp of ASA.)

IMO the phrase in ( ) in the curent rule, is there to make clear that the proper batter is out per the penalty to clarify who should be the next proper batter. If Fed still wanted to supersede the out made by the improper batter, they would not have removed the 2002 language.

Further, the words "any other" is an inclusive phrase which in no way can be interperted to mean one of the other outs made during playing action is not included.

This is a long way of saying the test is correct per the rule. I'm not sure if the Rule Committee meant to change the rule or not, but they have. It would not be the first time we have had a "stelth" change to Fed rules, or an inadverant change.

I'm interested in your comments.

Roger Greene


[Edited by Roger Greene on Feb 8th, 2005 at 07:56 PM]

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by Roger Greene
I'm interested in your comments...

Example: Line up is B1, B2, B3. B1 singles. B3 then hits into a double play. Defense appeals the batting out of order, so 2 outs on the double play and B2 is ruled out for not taking her turn at bat. Three outs ends the inning and the second inning is started with B3 as the proper batter.

My personal opinion is that this above situation is what some people are saying is the proper ruling but not what I think the rules committees intended. I have only known one person who was on a rules committee of a national softball organization. He spoke of how the rules formulated by the committee were not always printed as intended after editors and printers got through with them. Before I would believe this above example to be their intent, I would need further specifications, perhaps in the form of a case play.

[WestMichBlue]

I can provide the background detail on this rule.

The NFHS position has always been that an improper batter, when discovered, simply went "poof!" She disappeared. If she was still at bat, she was removed for the batters box. If she got on base, she was removed from the base. If she made an out, the out was cancelled. However, any outs made on other runners would stand.

As Roger noted, up to and through 2002 the rulebook had an Exception with the "supercedes" clause. Thus the out called on the proper batter superceded or replaced the out called on the improper batter.

In 2003 NFHS re-wrote Rule 7 to mirror ASA 7. In doing so they dropped the Exception and said any outs made on the play stand.

I challenged NFHS on this, wanting to know if they now wanted us to call the extra out the way ASA would. They (Mary Stuckhoff) vacillated for a couple days, then said “no.” She issued an “administrative ruling” (not a rules change) telling us to use the 2002 rule. I posted that on this board (and maybe McGriff’s) as that was about the only way umpires would know about it.

NFHS changed the rule in 2004 to add the Effect: “. . . . declare the batter who should have batted out (not the improper batter.) Then they added the word “other," as in “Any other outs on the play stand."

Now we are back where we started. Under BOO, the proper batter is called out; the improper batter is never out, and any outs made by other runners will stand.

WMB

Speaking of "stealth" changes; the NFHS didn't realize they made a change in 2003, and then didn't tell anybody when they fixed the rule in 2004.

[Edited by WestMichBlue on Feb 9th, 2005 at 12:18 AM]

[Roger Greene]

"They (Mary Stuckhoff) vacillated for a couple days, then said “no.” She issued an “administrative ruling” (not a rules change) telling us to use the 2002 rule."
********************************

WMB,

Could you direct me to a copy of this administrative ruling? I would like to put one in my files to clarify this, since I couldn't fing a play in the case book to support it.

Roger Greene