Multiple runners at single base

[rwest]

I've got some questions regarding multiple runners at a single base. This happened to me last year. R1 at 1B is a rabbit. Batter hits a shot between LF anc LCF. R1 stumbles going around third. BR thought he was going home; he winds up standing on Third Base. The R1 is lying on the ground with his hand on third base.

Who's entitled to the base? I say R1.

Can BR be tagged at 3rd to be out? I say yes.

Can the infield tag 2nd base for an out? I say no. The BR would have to be tagged out.

Is the only way B1 be called out is if he comes off the base and then is tagged? Again, I say yes.

Now lets modify the situation a bit. Suppose the outfield threw the ball to the catcher and that B1 was half way home when he realized he was going to be put out. He decides to head back to third. However, the BR is standing on third.

Is B1 still entitled to the base and does his returning to third force the BR to return to 2nd? In other words, his rounding third does not automatically deprive him of his right to the base, correct?

If the BR does not return to 2nd, he has to be tagged to be out. Can he only be tagged out when B1 is also standing on 3rd? In other words, its not until B1 is standing on 3rd that the BR is actually forced to leave the bag. Of course he could also be tagged out going back to 2nd. In fact he has to be tagged out because this is not a force play, correct?

Sorry for some many questions. Just trying to get all the factors involved clear.



[Edited by rwest on Feb 8th, 2005 at 05:02 PM]

[greymule]

I've got some questions regarding multiple runners at a single base. This happened to me last year. R1 at 1B is a rabbit. Batter hits a shot between LF anc LCF. R1 stumbles going around third. BR thought he was going home; he winds up standing on Third Base. The R1 is lying on the ground with his hand on third base.

Who's entitled to the base? I say R1.

The preceding running is entitled to the base unless forced. That's R1. When the BR is past 2B, it would take a play from Mars to have a force out possible (except appeals for previously missed bases).

Can BR be tagged at 3rd to be out? I say yes.

You're right.

Can the infield tag 2nd base for an out? I say no. The BR would have to be tagged out.

Again right.

Is the only way B1 [you mean R1?] be called out is if he comes off the base and then is tagged? Again, I say yes.

Right again.

Now lets modify the situation a bit. Suppose the outfield threw the ball to the catcher and that B1 was half way home when he realized he was going to be put out. He decides to head back to third. However, the BR is standing on third.

Is B1 still entitled to the base and does his returning to third force the BR to return to 2nd? In other words, his rounding third does not automatically deprive him of his right to the base, correct?

R1 is the preceding runner and always will be in this play. The fact that R1 is past 3B and BR is on 3B does not make BR the preceding runner, even though he got to 3B "before" R1, in a way.

R1's returning does not force BR to return to 2B. But while R1 is touching 3B, BR has no protection from being on the base.

Note: In baseball, it is supposedly theoretically possible to have two runners occupy a base if the defense does not play on them and merely pitches to the next batter. Don't expect to see that play next time you turn on the TV, however. Softball is probably a different story, but I don't know. This hasn't come up to my knowledge.

If the BR does not return to 2nd, he has to be tagged to be out. Can he only be tagged out when B1 is also standing on 3rd? In other words, its not until B1 is standing on 3rd that the BR is actually forced to leave the bag. Of course he could also be tagged out going back to 2nd. In fact he has to be tagged out because this is not a force play, correct?

As long as R1 is not touching 3B, BR is protected while touching 3B. It is in no way a force play.

Watch the runners in a pro game. As soon as R1 touches 3B, BR will retreat toward 2B. When they play on BR, R1 will leave 3B.

Sorry for some many questions. Just trying to get all the factors involved clear.

I'll send you my bill.

[AtlUmpSteve]

"Note: In baseball, it is supposedly theoretically possible to have two runners occupy a base if the defense does not play on them and merely pitches to the next batter. Don't expect to see that play next time you turn on the TV, however. Softball is probably a different story, but I don't know. This hasn't come up to my knowledge."

That question has been posed in other groups, and answered for ASA by the NUS. It isn't an out, it isn't a lookback violation if the pitcher holds the ball and makes no play, unless the BR foolishly retreats after stopping on 3B. If neither side reacts, call "time", and put BR back on 2B, the last base legally touched (since R1 owns 3B).

[Roger Greene]

Unless it is a Fed game. Then there is a Fed play which states that if no action is taken by the defense, and both runners remain on the same base, the umpire is to call time, and declare the following runner out.

Roger Greene

[greymule]

Yes, I know that in ASA you call time and move the preceding runner back. I actually had to do that once in a rec game. I was thinking of the (Martian) play where the runner on 3B does not advance to home, and the result is two runners on 3B, one on 2B, and one on 1B. Now what? Since this isn't going to happen, it's not worth considering except purely theoretically. I guess you refuse to call time or get behind the plate and just wait for the defense or offense to make a move.

And I should have said "OBR," not "baseball."