In a close game (FP), runner on 2B, BU in C position, batter hits a
slow roller towards F4, as BU you start in at an angle that will give
you a good look, be closer to the play than somewhere behind F6. As
you start in, you see PU has gone more up the line towards 1B to observe
pull foot, etc.. You realize that you also have a runner at 2nd base who
is advancing on the play. You also realize that the call at 1B is your
call. You slow down so your position is now close to circle, but not
as close as you would normally be when making a call at 1B. F3 catches
the ball, actually pulling foot prior to receiving the ball. As BU you
indicate safe. F3 anticipating R1's advancement to 3rd, snaps a bullet to
F5. Sliding R1's hand touches bag, then ball touches hand. You as BU
hesitate, (mechanically not your call), hear nothing from PU, yell, "Hand on bag,
Late tag." As you straighten, from your sell "safe"you hear a loud "OUT"
sell call from PU, positioned between HP and 1st base.
"Damn, mess". (thoughts to self). Naturally you now have two coaches approaching.

After discussion with partner, you stay with BU's call. He did have the
position.

How would you handle a play like this?



[Edited by whiskers_ump on Nov 20th, 2004 at 08:57 PM]

You've picked a good example, and I think we all know their are other similar ones. In these type of situations, I will make eye contact with my partner before making a call. If we're both looking at each other, I might point at my partner or take the call myself, depending on the situation.

Mistake #1. BU should have kept his mouth shut. Unless it is obvious that the PU has been physically taken out of the play, the BU should wait for the PU to "give up" the call before doing or saying anything.

Quote:

As you straighten, from your sell "safe"you hear a loud "OUT" sell call from PU, positioned between HP and 1st base.

Mistake #2. PU is only suppose to move down the line 20' at the most, maybe not as much knowing there was a possible play at 3B. PU should have been turned toward 3B, still watching 1B when the ball was received by F3. The FP field is not that big that the PU shouldn't have at least been in the vicinity (for WMB :)) of the circle when the play occured at 3B.

Quote:

"Damn, mess". (thoughts to self). Naturally you now have two coaches approaching. After discussion with partner, you stay with BU's call. He did have the position. How would you handle a play like this?

Not screwed it up to begin?

Mike

You are right. A couple of mistakes were made. I was BU.
I waited for his call, got none and knew we had another
base runner to contend with. Knew he was not in position
make this call, and hoped that he had drifted towards 2B.
When I saw him, I knew he could not have made that call with
ease either. PU admitted he went to far trailing BR and had
forgotten there was a runner at 2B.

I know that communications would have assisted in this play,
but it all happened pretty quickly.

Thanks for input.

I hope that he at least brought the beer!

in this situation isn't that what the holding zone on the third base line is for?
slide up the line don't trail, see the foot don't cheat, release PU play at third?

"in this situation isn't that what the holding zone on the third base line is for?"

No. The PU uses that position when a ball is hit to the outfield and he may have a play at home - or at 3rd. From that "holding position" the PU can slide back if the ball comes to home. If there is no play at home he release that runner, crosses the foul line, and moves into position to make a call at 3B.

When the ball is on the infield, the PU's first priority is the B-R to 1B, then switch to 3B. But, as Mike noted, don't get too close to the line nor too far up the line. Cheat a little towards the center of the field so that you can react to a play at 3B.

WMB

I hope that he at least brought the beer!
__________________
Mike Rowe
ASA Umpire

As a matter of fact, he did. He also brought diner,
at Wille Ray's barbecue.

WMB, John,

PU went way too far up the line. I actually thought that
he might make the call at 1B. He was badly out of position
for the play at 3rd. I did hesitate, made what I saw, then
seconds behind my call, he makes his. When we talked later,
he said he heard my call, but was already committed on his.

WMB I disagree, unfortunately the NCAA manual doesn't go into 2 man mechanics, but the way i see it if you don't trail in 3 man with a runner at second you certainly don't in 2 man...

Sounds like we need a better mechanic for runner at 2nd only, like sensibly switching responsibilities for 1st and 3rd.

CecilOne,

I like that, and use to have a partner that I worked NFHS
with and that is exactly what we did. Single runner was
always BU's, with runner on 2B, PU would take her all the
way until play ended. Worked very well. Never had any
foul ups.

single runner
 

More than a few of us in the Pacific Northwest do exactly that...it's the base umpire's call. But...it all comes down to having a REAL pregame with your partner and talking about plays like this. Who is going to make the call? Discuss it before the game so you don't have situations like that.

With that being said, the PU should not trail that far up the line. I know the closer I get to 50 years old the less far I go up the line...although I will go at least 15-20 feet.

By all means the PU does NOT go to the holding area with a single runner on second and a "routine" ground ball in the infield. This gets me to a pet peeve: I see far too many PUs who often don't go up the first base line. They go to the holding area or, worse, right up the 3B line! ARRRRGGGGHHH

Don't think so. If the umpire's do their job as prescribed, the present mechanic works quite well.

Mike: ”Don't think so. If the umpire's do their job as prescribed, the present mechanic works quite well.”

OK, but what really is the prescribed mechanic for a runner at 2B? I know what you said above, and I’ve always agreed, and I echoed your comment in my response above. But when challenged by jstark23, I went to the ASA umpire’s manual to quote a specific line – and I couldn’t find it!

With a runner at 1B and a ball on the infield, there are a couple references to direct the PU up the 1B line and then move across the field to cover a play at 3B. (PU duties: Leaving the plate area left of catcher . . . and PU under 2-Man Mechanics with runner at 1B.)

However, with runners at 2B (or 3B) the 2-Man duties state that the PU moves toward 3b. Specifically: “Be ready and in position to make a call by going down the left field foul line in foul ground.”

We have always been taught, when there may be a play at 1B, that the PU’s first responsibility are calls prior to the 3’ lane and to support the BU for pulled foot/swipe tags. The 2nd responsibility would be the lead runner into 3B. It seems as though we have taken that “first responsibility” requirement literally to mean that we have to be on the 1B line.

Conversely, I have always believed that when you have a runner in scoring position (2B or 3B) that the PU should never go into the infield (other than crossing over to make a call at 3B).

Thus our “first responsibility” duties will have to be made, as best we humanly can do, from foul territory along the 3B line.

If we get inside the field with runners in scoring position, then we may well have to make a call at the plate – with the throw coming from inside! And that, of course, is bad mechanics.

WMB