IP or leaving early?

[Dakota]

This situation is from the NFHS board. Since only a couple of you guys post over there with any regularity, I'm cutting and pasting it here for comment. (Since I did not see this situation, we have to take the description at face value.)

The situation was presented as NFHS rules. Comments using other rules are welcome, though.

We had a play that occurred last week in a tournament in Davie. Here's the situation... R1 on first...

Pitcher goes into her windup and has a brain fart, holding on to the ball and not delivering. Easy call... illegal pitch... right? But wait... there's more.

R1 has pitcher timed, and so at the point that the pitcher WOULD have released the ball, she gets off the bag.

So... what do you call? Delayed dead ball on the illegal pitch would award R1 2nd base. R1 did not comply with the rule that states that she must remain on the base until the pitcher releases the ball. (Obviously, since the pitcher never released the ball.) If you look at the rules, it seems that the legal call is that the illegal pitch is turned into a NO PITCH, and that the runner is out. But then, why doesn't every pitcher do that kind of a play every now and then, and get the runner out?

[whiskers_ump]

Tom,

I think without having ever seen this situation, I would
go with IP.

The runner as stated in the post was leaving at the point the ball
should have been delivered. Old BALK (Illegal Pitch). Award R1
2nd base and a ball to the batter. Puts a lot of judgement on
the umpire. Did she leave early? He could not really tell since
ball was not delivered. NFHS may rules this as "leaving early", but
at this point I cannot see that. I would think that the IP came be-
fore the leaving early.

JMHO

[jstark23]

The way that I would judge this one would be that if she left when the hand was at the hip when the runner left I'm enforcing the IP not the early leave, if the runner left before the hand was at the hip I'm enforcing the leave early... in my opinion the runner that leaves when the hand and ball are at the hip has met the spirit of the rule

[3afan]

IP - no question .......

[Dakota]

I think it is IP also, but I am having a hard time with the rules. WMB posted a good analysis on the NFHS board. Perhaps he will repost it here.

Even so, following the "order of events", since the pitcher never did release the ball, at what point in the delivery did the IP "happen" and did the runner lose contact with the base before that point?

With a single umpire, there is ample room for judgment to make the "right call."

But suppose the BU calls NO PITCH - RUNNER OUT at about the same time as the PU is calling THAT'S ILLEGAL? Now we have some mess, Ollie!

Strictly speaking, the runner did leave before the ball left the pitcher's hand (since it never left), and strictly speaking the IP is a delayed dead ball, not an immediate dead ball, so even with the IP call by the PU, the ball is still live until the play completes.

I would go with the IP call, but does anyone care to comment on any of this?

[WestMichBlue]

”Strictly speaking, the runner did leave before the ball left the pitcher's hand (since it never left), and strictly speaking the IP is a delayed dead ball, not an immediate dead ball, so even with the IP call by the PU, the ball is still live until the play completes.”

This question came from the NFHS board so I used their rules for my answer, which was “Dead Ball, IP, and send R1 to 2B.

Though the basic pitching rules are the same in ASA or FED, there are differences which require a different ruling on the field. (OK, we won’t argue about which are better, but you know my feelings! ) In ASA the penalty for all IP’s is delayed dead ball, then make a ruling based on the subsequent action. NFHS differentiates between types of IP’s and allows for immediate dead ball on some infractions (i.e., foreign substances or throwing to a base). If F1 spits on the ball, we don’t wait for the pitch, we call IP right now, make the awards – and clean the ball.

To our specific case, NFHS has an extra five words (that I have highlighted) that are different from ASA. The applicable rule is 6.1.4 "no motion to pitch is made without immediately delivering the ball to the batter. The penalty is illegal pitch; ball is dead at the end of playing action, if the ball is pitched.

A delayed call is necessary to allow the batter to hit the IP, and then take either the play or the penalty. If she doesn't pitch the ball there is no reason for a delayed dead ball. Call dead ball immediately, thus the ball was dead before R1 left the base.

I am sure that the hand had passed well beyond the release point before we recognized that the pitcher failed to let go. I will retroactively re-create the order, and say that the IP point, and thus dead ball, occurred the instant the hand passed the hip without releasing. And that was prior to the runner leaving the base.

WMB

[whiskers_ump]

Thank you, Thank you very much.

[Andy]

WMB got it....An illegal pitch is a delayed dead ball. When the ball is not released, it is dead - Right Now!

In my judgement (I love those words) the runner left the base during a dead ball, that's nothing. I have an illegal picth, runner to second base, ball on the batter.