Question of protocol.

[Skahtboi]

Your partner is in C position. Catcher requests help on a check swing. Do you go to your partner as a courtesy, or do you deny the request due to the fact that your partner is in no position to see the check swing?

The reason that I ask is that this discussion came up last night, and I will be interested to see what all of you do.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

From the C position, the only help you will get from your partner is with left handed batters. Having said that, whether your partner is in the A or B positions for right handed batters or the C position for left handed batters, it is still up to you to decide whether you want to go to your partner when the catcher asks. If you are 100% the batter did not go, then just politely tell the catcher that the batter did not go, if you arent' sure then by all means go to your partner. But do not go to your partner for help unless the catcher asks you and you aren't 100% sure.

[AtlUmpSteve]

The NCAA rule book and Umpire Manual mandate the plate umpire go for help on any checked swing request, regardless the position of the base umpire. The ASA NUS has always recommended you go for help unless you feel the coach or team is being continuously riduculous in the request.

That said, I can see no valid reason in 99.9% of the cases to refuse to ask on a checked swing, regardless the position of the base umpire. If you are tracking the ball as currently taught, there is every good liklihood you did not see the full movement of the bat, or able to absolutely judge if a batter has attempted to hit the ball. I can see no valid reason for a base umpire, regardless of his position on the field, to not answer with a truthful response, based on the action of the batter, not based on some predetermination that he can't see a swing.

If the base umpire cannot honestly tell, it isn't a swing. Otherwise, do your job, honor the game, try to make the right call.

[Panda Bear]

I agree, except for obvious abuses, requests should be honored.

As base ump, regardless of position, part of my job is to be a resource for appeals for assistance, checked swings included. Depending on circumstances, sometimes I'll be a better resource than others. But, as with any request for assistance, only change the call when asked if you are sure.

There is no harm in asking, essentially, "Did you see something different?" If the answer is "yes", then you saw something different; rule accordingly. However, a "no" answer could be a)you saw it the same OR b)you didn't see it well enough to tell if there was something different or not. In case b, you stay with the original call.

[bluejay]

I agree with previous posts. Un unpire in "C" may not see as well as he would in "A" but players and coaches don't think about that. To avoid comments like "are you too good to ask for help?" it is much better to go.

Jay

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by AtlUmpSteve
If you are tracking the ball as currently taught, there is every good liklihood you did not see the full movement of the bat, or able to absolutely judge if a batter has attempted to hit the ball.

I'm sorry, Steve, but I have to ask. Based on the statement above, how can an umpire come out of their set position, point to the bat and declare the batter went and rule a strike?

According to your statement, this should never happen, right?

Couldn't resist

[AtlUmpSteve]

When tracking, the ball becomes the point of focus, and the bat movement is only seen with peripheral vision. When it is obvious, it is obvious. An inside pitch belt high gives a great view of the bat and movement. But a curve ball or a curve drop on the outside corner, tracked to the glove, makes a partial bat movement difficult to judge effectively. Personally, I track the ball, and give my best concentration to getting the ball/strike call as right as I can, knowing I am giving up the bat movement as a trade off. After all, I can and should get help on the swing, not on the ball/strike call.

That is my point; if it came across differently, sorry.

[Steve M]

I agree with my Atlanta namesake. College requires PU to check with BU whenever asked. In high school & other games, I'll check just about every time I'm asked. It helps, a lot, when it's known that you'll ask when you're asked. I'll also say that many of the college games are in a 3-man crew.

[JEL]

Had one guy tell me, "If I take off my mask, call it a strike, if I don't remove my mask, call it a ball".


My reply, "You better not ask"!


I will always check if asked, I will always call what I saw if asked.

[Skahtboi]

I was just wondering what the majority of this board would say. This came up in a discussion the other night in a fall HS league. I was PU. Batter made a motion toward the ball, but in my opinion really did not make an offer. Pitch was well low of the strike zone. Catcher asked if batter went, so I went to my partner. He called no swing. In between innings he came up and asked me why I went to him when he was in C position, and I told him that I always honor any request for help on check swings. He countered that one should never go for help when your partner is in C position. I told him that every clinic I have attended has always said to, and that I will continue to honor any requests for help regardless of what position my partner is in, and that I expect an honest reply on their part. He, jokingly, told me that I needed to start attending some different clinics. So...I decided to put it up to this board to see what you all would say. Thanks.

[Edited by Skahtboi on Oct 15th, 2004 at 02:52 PM]

[FUBLUE]

Originally posted by JEL
Had one guy tell me, "If I take off my mask, call it a strike, if I don't remove my mask, call it a ball".


My reply, "You better not ask"!


I will always check if asked, I will always call what I saw if asked.

I always ask if I'm asked, and always reply if I'm asked on bases. I never play games, like,

"If I use your first name, give me what you see. If I call you blue, give me what I've got."

[Steve M]

Scott,
Sounds like your partner hasn't gone to any clinic in maybe, 10 years or so.

[Skahtboi]

That's a possibility.

[CecilOne]

Just a caveat:
In a situation when I was sure of no swing, I asked the BU in C just as a courtesy and bcause "ASA NUS has always recommended you go for help". To my amazement, the BU ruled strike. It was third strike, third out, bottom of the seventh in a 1-0 game, game over, team out of tournament.
The losing team was abusive and he was accused of ending the game because of the heat.