Please have patience, another look back?

shipwreck · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 10, 2004, 02:57pm

NFHS rules. Batter over runs first base turns left and is walking back toward the infield. The pitcher then receives the ball in the circle. What are the runners options at this point? Can she at that point stop and then make a decision to which base she can try to advance. If she continues say one or two steps after the pitcher receives the ball, is she committed to the base she was going? The rule book gives examples of different scenarois but they base them all when the pitcher has possesion of the ball in the circle. Those I understand. The problem comes with the timing of when the pitcher receives the ball. Thanks, Dave

SC Ump · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 10, 2004, 04:50pm

When the pitcher receives the ball in the circle, the runner must immediately decide which base she wants to go to. My opinion is that what "immediately" means would be based on the umpires interpretation as related to what was happening on the specific play. In almost all the circumstances I can think of, if the player is moving toward first and if the pitcher then receives the ball in the circle, that first nanosecond of movement by the runner following the receipt of the ball has committed her to first.

Ol Blue · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 11, 2004, 10:47pm

Still NFHS. What if batter walks and BEFORE she reaches 1B catcher returns the ball to the pitcher in the circle, Runner rounds first and takes two steps directly towards 2B. Has she committed to 2B? If she stops can she return to 1B or must she go?

WestMichBlue · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 12, 2004, 01:04am

Shipwreck: I would agree with you that the overrun first base exceptions would not apply, as the LBR was not in effect when the runner touched 1B.

So then you go back to your basic rule that after LBR is in effect (pitcher has ball and runner is legitimately off a base), the runner is allowed one stop, must decide to go to 2B or back to 1B, and then proceed non-stop.

Ol Blue: One of the most mis-understood of the LB Rules, especially by coaches. 8.7.3.a is very specific: "a B-R who rounds 1B towards 2B may stop. . . . . It doesn't say how many steps, nor how far. Just allowed to stop. Then go forward - or go back. Technically, the runner could go within 1" of 2B, stop, and then return.

WMB

mcrowder · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 12, 2004, 02:30pm

And in the first scenario, if she's walking back toward first, and the ball ends up in the circle, she has not suddenly relinquished her right to stop once.

Ol Blue · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 12, 2004, 08:13pm

Since we're talking LBR, both NFHS and ASA say runner may stop but then "must immediately" continue or return. What's the consensus on immedidte, one second, two?

whiskers_ump · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 12, 2004, 09:14pm

1001 begin 100(2) - bang bang

Bagman62 · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 12, 2004, 09:19pm

"must immediately" The judgement of the umpire making the call, on this board depending on the level of ball I have see it go from a nanosecond to two seconds.

mach3 · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 13, 2004, 01:38am

"immediately" for me means, that I will grant them a bit longer than it takes for me to realize that the ball is in the circle and the pitcher is not trying or faking a throw.

Raoul

Del-Blue · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 13, 2004, 05:19am

Doing a junior college fall DH last weekend, there was a girl whom I think was really testing what immediately meant. The ball would get back to the pitcher, and she would just stand there and look at her, probably about a sec and a half. She would go back to the base at about the time I would start to call time to call her out. Don't know if it were during the season I would call her out or not, but it was close. I did mention it to the coach that she was flirting with an out call.

WestMichBlue · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 13, 2004, 03:51pm

Too many umpires are hung up over the definition of "immediately" in the LBR. My response is: "Who cares?"

Call the game in accordance with the intent, or spirit of the rule. LBR is designed to stop the game playing between the pitcher (or catcher) by a runner. If the runner is not taunting the pitcher, let her go. It doesn't matter if she hesitiates 0.1 seconds or 2.1 seconds. Just glance at her; if she goes back, then take a deep breath and go on with the game.

The only time I get concerned with the LBR is when the offense is trying to gain an advantage. This happens when a runner, usually at 1B, is trying to get a play on herself to get a runner home from 3B. In that situation I would agree that you need to hold the runner(s) to a fairly strick interpretation of the LBR.

WMB

CecilOne · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 16, 2004, 10:03am

Quote:

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
Too many umpires are hung up over the definition of "immediately" in the LBR. My response is: "Who cares?"

Call the game in accordance with the intent, or spirit of the rule. LBR is designed to stop the game playing between the pitcher (or catcher) by a runner. If the runner is not taunting the pitcher, let her go. It doesn't matter if she hesitiates 0.1 seconds or 2.1 seconds. Just glance at her; if she goes back, then take a deep breath and go on with the game.

The only time I get concerned with the LBR is when the offense is trying to gain an advantage. This happens when a runner, usually at 1B, is trying to get a play on herself to get a runner home from 3B. In that situation I would agree that you need to hold the runner(s) to a fairly strick interpretation of the LBR.

WMB

Ditto !