Pitch behind the back

[emaxos]

Thought I would get your reactions to this.
Sophomore pitcher at an SEC university will occasionally throw a pitch from behind her back, usually for strike three. She has been doing this from her high school days. Easy to miss if your not watching her carefully; velocity and accuracy are equal to her normal delivery.
Obviously the coach allows her do do it. I was told it was judged by the SEC as a legal pitch. She does this in a game situation, not in an exhibition.
Personally, I think it's a bit unprofessional and an attempt to show up a batter. However, it's quite a feat to make it as accurately and quickly as she does.
Only question I have is about an attempt to deceive the batter by altering her release point.

[Del-Blue]

Only call to make......Illegal pitch

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Del-Blue
Only call to make......Illegal pitch

Even with the heavy NFCA influence in the rules, I don't believe a pitch behind the back would ever become legal.

But, now that I said that, watch them prove me wrong!

[omaha blue]

Actually the NCAA interpreter has ruled this to be a legal pitch.

[scottk_61]

This is a legal pitch in the NCAA, why I have no idea but....
When the NCAA decided to rule this legal, they initially claimed that they had the support of ASA for the ruling,
Can you guess how long it took Merle and Henry to refute that claim?

I can guaraantee you that kind of pitch violates every intent of pitching rules.

[Dakota]

If she is releasing the ball from behind her back, she is violating ASA Rule 6-3-F.

Illegal pitch.

[Dakota]

I'm not an NCAA umpire, but by my naive reading of the NCAA book, it also violates NCAA Rule 10-6-d.

The NCAA book can be found in the Links section of the Softball Umpires web site - shameless plug - and with just a few more hits, we'll make up that 69143 point deficit and become the #1 site on eteamz. We're up to 169 points now!

I'm sure it violates Fed's book, too. How did she ever get this pitch perfected?

[emaxos]

This is something she has been doing for a few years. She's from my geographic area and I know her Dad brought her along as a pitcher. She was no.1 HS pitcher in MS. 2 years ago. I would have to assume her Dad started this. I know her HS coach never condoned it.
She pitches for Miss State. I find it hard to believe that her current coach (Jay Miller) allows it but I suppose since the SEC didn't outlaw it, he thinks it's OK.

[Shmuelg]

ISF Rules (the ones used in the Olympics),

Rule 6, Sec.3 has nothing that prohibits this kind of pitch.

Eddie Feigner's legacy, I guess.



Sec. 3. LEGAL DELIVERY.
a. The pitcher must not make any motion to pitch without immediately delivering the ball to the batter.
b. The pitcher must not use a pitching motion in which, after having the ball in both hands in the pitching position, he removes one hand from the ball, takes a backward and forward swing, and returns the ball to both hands in front of the body.
c. The pitcher must not use a windup in which there is a stop, or reversal, of the forward motion.
d. The pitcher must not make two revolutions of the arm on the windmill pitch. However, he may drop his arm to the side and to the rear before starting the windmill motion. This allows the arm to pass the hip twice.
e. The delivery must be an underhanded motion, with the hand below the hip and the wrist not farther from the body than the elbow.
f. The release of the ball and follow through of the hand and wrist must be forward and past the straight line of the body.
g. Both feet must remain in contact with the pitching plate at all times prior to the forward step.
h. In the act of delivering the ball, the pitcher must take one step simultaneous with the release of the ball. The step must be forward toward the batter and within the 61.0cm (24 in) length of the pitcher's plate.

NOTE: It is not a step if the pitcher slides his foot across the pitcher's plate, provided contact is maintained with the plate. Lifting the pivot foot off the pitcher's plate and returning it to the plate, creating a rocking motion, is an illegal act.

i. The pivot foot may remain in contact with, or may push off and drag away from, the pitcher's plate prior to the stepping (non-pivot) foot touching the ground, provided the pivot foot remains in contact with the ground.
j. Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher's plate before the stepping (non-pivot) foot has left the plate is considered a “crow hop” and is illegal.
k. The pitcher must not continue to wind up after releasing the ball.
l. The pitcher shall not deliberately drop, roll or bounce the ball in order to prevent the batter from hitting it.
m. The pitcher has 20 seconds to release the next pitch after receiving the ball, or after the umpire indicates, "Play Ball."

NOTE: An additional ball is awarded the batter.

Shmuel

[JEL]

After this thread was started, I had a HS pitcher do something I had never seen before.

Pitcher would deliver the ball UNDER her NP leg! The first time she did it I had to think "did I see what I think I saw"?, and "is it legal"? I was FU, and the plate guy with 35+ yrs of experience seemed to be caught off guard. On the 2nd pitch under the leg, he called it illegal due to the leg landing outside the 24" lane. I don't think she landed outside the lane, and I have been unable to find any ruling to make it illegal.

Pitches weren't accurate, but they sure looked funky to the batter.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by emaxos
This is something she has been doing for a few years. She's from my geographic area and I know her Dad brought her along as a pitcher. She was no.1 HS pitcher in MS. 2 years ago. I would have to assume her Dad started this. I know her HS coach never condoned it.
She pitches for Miss State. I find it hard to believe that her current coach (Jay Miller) allows it but I suppose since the SEC didn't outlaw it, he thinks it's OK.

This gal was on a team in the AFA 18U Nationals a few years ago.
After much discussion by all the "to be's" they decided it was also
legal. A very good friend of mine had them in a conference game
this year, called the pitch illegal, and was handed a letter from from
someone within the NCAA chain stated that the pitch was legal. So guess
it will be a hot topic again. She does not use it much, but when thrown
it was usually for a strike. Seems like a violation of 6.3f

[Skahtboi]

f. The release of the ball and follow through of the hand and wrist must be forward and past the straight line of the body.

To me, it would seem difficult for a pitcher to meet this qualification if they were pitching behind their back, or, for that matter, under their leg. Guess I would have to see it happen to be sure...

[WestMichBlue]

"past the straight line of the body."

I've always felt this is the most ambiguous statement in the entire rules book. I don't think that any umpire has a clue what the "straight line of the body" is; I suspect most of us just go right past this sentence.

Is this a vertical line? If it is straight, then it can't be bent. So the pitcher's body is straight? Can't be bent anywhere? Does it have to be vertical? Can she be leaning forward? Or backwards?

Or is it a vertical plane? Then in what point of the compass can the plane be pointed? Are the hips to be pointed at 1st and 3rd? Or can the hips be pointed at home and 2nd and the release passes in front of the body?

OK, maybe it is a horizontal line. Maybe it is a line directly from the middle of the pitcher to the middle of the plate. So if the ball was released in a sidearm motion, it was have a different angle to the plate than the "straight line" of the body? But we already have rules to prevent sidearm pitching, so this would be redundant.

If it is a straight line from the middle of the pitcher to the plate, then why can't the pitcher throw behind the back. What is the difference between the line of a R-H pitcher throwing behind the back and the line of a L-H pitcher throwing normal?

Use your imagination and tell me what possible pitching motion would violate the "straight line" rule?

WMB

[Dakota]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
don't think that any umpire has a clue what the "straight line of the body" is

It means, simply, in front of the body (he said, confidently).

[IRISHMAFIA]

e. The delivery must be an underhanded motion, with the hand below the hip and the wrist not farther from the body than the elbow.

Seems to me that the requirement to keep the hand below the hip would be the more difficult, and most likely not happening, task.