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Sun Sep 12, 2004, 06:46pm
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Going into the 5th (last) inning in todays fall ball double header I asked the coaches what the score was. One said tied at 17-17. The other (home) team said they had the lead 18-17. After looking at the scorebooks it became clear that both teams had multiple erasures, mark outs, etc making it darn near impossible to tell who did what. So we went with home team book is official and even though the visitors swore they were right they accepted the vedict. Three up, three down, game over.
My question is how much is the umpire supposed to remember about who did what? If it was a closer game I hope I would have remembered the high points and would have been able to clear things up 100%. But so many runs were being scored that I honestly didn't remember the exact replay of any particular inning. Where does the umpires' responsibility begin and end when it comes to scorebook verification? 
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Sun Sep 12, 2004, 07:12pm
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Sounds like a league problem and not an umpiring problem. Without an official (recognized) scorebook established, all we can do is keep the peace and guess, ...if we cannot remember.  mick
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Sun Sep 12, 2004, 11:43pm
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In games where each team keeps their own book, you are right - home is official.
However, just to prevent such a discrepancy, at each half inning, I ask the offensive book how many runs were scored. I then ask the defense book the same question. If I get a different answer (about 1 time every 10 games), I ask the two scorekeepers to get together. If they can't (only happened once), then I will declare "home" official and move one. This isn't really "my job" but it is common practice around here (to the point that it is expected) and besides, I find it to be a good practice in game management.
__________________
Tom
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Mon Sep 13, 2004, 06:45am
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I may check after a big inning, but generally I check once around the 6th. mick
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Mon Sep 13, 2004, 07:44am
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However, if I do hear different scores from the normal banter between the teams, I will instruct the books to get together and work it out. THEY must work it out and I will not be part of it unless there is a question concerning a run scoring on the 3rd out of the inning.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Mon Sep 13, 2004, 11:04am
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I don't want to know the score or anything else that someone might claim is a basis for partiality. I just ask that they make sure the books agree.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
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Mon Sep 13, 2004, 11:16am
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Welcome back. Heard you had a good time in Florida. Have fun? Serg
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Mon Sep 13, 2004, 02:05pm
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Mike was one of ASA's Elite umpires selected to work the Armed Forces Softball Championships recently held in Florida. Which, by the way, Air Force won. GO AIR FORCE!! Serg
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Mon Sep 13, 2004, 02:51pm
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Spreading the Gospel? Well, I'm sure he can do that! Thanks, Serg. mick
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Mon Sep 13, 2004, 03:28pm
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Our UIC here in Troup County suggests keeping a scorecard on each game, recording runs scored between each inning, and verifying the score you recorded for that half inning with your partner, if you have one. Takes a tad bit more time, but sure does prevent some problems.
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Mon Sep 13, 2004, 05:45pm
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Here in Tidewater Virginia, most of the slow pitch leagues have scorecards that our umpires fill out each game. It's easier to get the scores each inning and writing them on the scorecards. Then just total up at end.
During tournaments (slow pitch), I usually ask the teams like maybe during the fifth inning or so what the score is (just to see if we have a potential slaughter rule). Since I don't have to fill out scorecards, I just need to get the final score at end of game and pass it on to TD. Like Mike stated earlier, if teams don't agree on score, they need to resolve it themselves. And all that's required for that are the two respective scorekeepers. Rest of us will continue to play ball!! Serg
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Tue Sep 14, 2004, 12:20pm
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Savoie did everything he could to keep me away from the beer, but yes, had a good time. Eglin AFB special services treated us well. The only problem was working 3rd with 80' bases. That is a long way to your position. By day three, just about all 6 umpires were walking around like me and I have two bum knees!
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Tue Sep 14, 2004, 01:07pm
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Mike,
Don't know about the Delaware umpires, but Savoie didn't have any problem making me (Georgia) work the 1st and last games in the several Nationals when he was my UIC. LOL I wish I had known you were going; would have had you hug him for me just to freak him out! Hahahaha Welcome Back to Sergio also! BTW, my plight did not improve. :>( No problem, but I'm still deeply saddened at the outcome. Watch out for snakes! [Edited by Elaine "Lady Blue" on Sep 14th, 2004 at 02:09 PM]
__________________
Elaine "Lady Blue" Metro Atlanta ASA (retired) Georgia High School NFHS (retired) Mom of former Travel Player National Indicator Fraternity 1995
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Sat Sep 18, 2004, 09:17pm
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I started doing this on my own, and it's help avoid scoring misundestandings and also helped to keep games moving. After every half inning I check with the scorekeepers for how many runs scored during that half inning and I announce it to the other team to make sure that they agree, or, if they don't keep a book for the opposing offense, that at least they heard how many runs were scored against them. I write the number of runs and totals for each team on a card, where I also note HR's hit by each team and the player's uniform #, as we use the 3-HR limit/progressive rule. This has also helped eliminate confusion, especially when teams are going to their 4th, 5th, and 6th HR's. At the start of each half inning I announce the inning and score. (Top 6th, 8 to 5. Play) That way it's clear to me and all players what's going on, and prevents questions/arguments when mercy (run-ahead) rule situations apply. I don't have to stick around while teams are trying to sort out/argue about their scorecards. I've also been complimented by many spectators, who've said that they otherwise wouldn't know the accurate score/inning. I understand that this is not our responsibility as an umpire, but since I work mostly 1-man PU games, it helps me to demonstrate and keep control of games when teams are confident that I know the score, inning, out, ball and strike counts, etc at all times. Yes it's extra effort, but for the problems it avoids, it's well worth it. It also helps get the innings started quicker as both offense and defensive teams are used to commencing pitching and batting immediately following the call.
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