This came up at a clinic I was at the other day. We were talking about different appeal plays. Assume that the Base Ump is accross the field behind short. Runner on 2nd or 3rd, it doesn't matter. The ball is hit and the play is made on the Batter Runner at 1st base. My question "Who can make the Appeal to the Field Ump for the "Pulled Foot" was to get some of our rookie umps to think. During the conversation one of our Veteran umps said that a "Pulled Foot" was not an appeal type play. He said that if he thought there was a pulled foot he is suppose to ask the Plate ump if there was a pulled foot before he makes the "Safe or Out" call. I have never seen this done nor have I been tought this. I have always believed that this is an "Appeal" play that has to be made from the Defense. I have read the book "ASA" until I'm seeing double and I can't find it one way or the other. I could be looking right over it, I don't know. I just want to make sure I'm doing it the correct way. All comments are welcome.

It's true that it is not an appeal play, but a quick-thinking base umpire would check with the plate umpire on what might appear to be a pulled foot. If he/she didn't think it was a pulled foot, but the defense "appeals" it, then the base umpire would be best to ask for help.

It is not an appeal play by definition. An appeal play is defined in Rule 1 as (paraphrasing) a play where the umpire may not make a call until a proper appeal is made. Obviously that is not the case here. The umpire can make the call. Appeal plays are things like a missed base, batting out-of-order, leaving early on a caught fly, etc.

What you are describing is an "asking your partner for help" play. In common language of the game, you will often hear a coach or player say "I want to appeal a pulled foot" but what he really means is "Would you please check with your partner, I saw a pulled foot."

in one of our HS clinics we were told to go to the home plate ump before making the call when there is a question of the pulled foot. that was right before this past HS season, in January. it was the first time many of us had ever heard of this specific mechanic. i think during the year most of us used the 'old style', just making the call, then if the defensive team asked us to go to our partner for help then we did. if for example you have bases loaded & lots of stuff going on you may not have time to go to the home plate umpire 'realtime', and he might be looking to see if a runner touched 3rd or something else. as the home plate ump you certainly don't want to miss something else while concentrating on the play at first .........

What was just described is the biggest reason I make the call, and then ask for the "appeal" if needed. A lot of guys in our association want to point to plate umpire (not say anything, just point) and let them make the call.

Worked with one guy who would point an everything that was close. Since it was a blowout game, on one play that was obviously an out I pointed back :)

For me, I make the call, if coach asks me to check with my partner I'll ask. If not, play ball. (also coaches will ask for control of ball, traps, three-foot lane violations, etc).

If it is my call on a swipe tag or possible pulled foot - AND I AM NOT ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE what I see, then I am going to my partner and yell "PULL?" or "TAG?" He is going to give me a yes or no, a safe or out, and I am then going to make the call. It is as impressive as hell when you point across the field and yell "PULL?" and partner yell "YES" and you yell and sell "SAFE!" No arguments when you successfully use that mechanic.

This can be used when you are in "C" and F2 tries a pickoff at 1B. BU - "TAG? PU - "YES!" BU - "OUT!"

WMB

get the information BEFORE you make the call if at all possible...it avoids having to change it. I have found that if yu get all the ifno, and then make the correct call, youre gonna hear it a LOT less than if you make it and reverse it

Interesting conversation on this one....

Just the past two years in our umpire association clinics that works NCAA games, we were told to "make the call...don't point and ask for assistance...if the teams wish for you to ask for help, then go for the help."

This has become the SOP and we are evaluated on that procedure.

I know for many years we asked for help before making the call, this has been a BIG change for us...but that is what we are asked to do.

And to be honest, it has worked out just fine and the coaches like it.....coaches told our association leadership that they didn't want to see the umpires "pointing at each other."


LT

Our HS association can't agree on this one. I like to make the call as BU and then if coach asks for appeal on pulled foot, swipe tag, etc., I can get together with my partner and talk about it.

The problem with the point is this: some veterans and a lot of new umpires won't come back immediately with yes or not, they just stand there looking stupid, then say something. It may be the right call, but it looks like he/she is making it up.

We always stress pre-game conference, and this is one thing that must be covered in the pre-game.

Going to my partner before I make the call - to get all the info I need - is the correct way when/if I have any doubt about the fielder holding the base. I have only ever had a couple of times that I needed this kind of input before I made the call. Asking my partner if the was a pulled foot after I have made the call - in response to a coach's request - is also correct. I have asked my partner, in response to a coach, lots of times.

I do not like the mechanic of going to partner before making a call. There are a lot of times the PU is busy with other duties, than IMO both look stupid and are guessing. I have NO problem going to my partner if there is a question in my mind, but I will make the call first.

Lets just say there is a runner on second, and the BU has a question on the play at first, and the runner on second held the bag until the throw to first, when she goes to third. Now with the play at first the BU has a question, and points to the PU who has moved to third for the play there. Now when pointed to, the BU is unsure of the pulled foot, and calls the runner safe, and has a bang, bang play at third. His/her comcentration has now been taken off the play at third. What kind of grief do you think you will get from the coaches????

Make the call, and than go to your partner if requested to do so.

JMOHO

Bob

If the PU has other responsibilities, then sure, make the call. But if thats the only play AND YOURE NOT SURE, get help before ya make it. Theres no shame there.

What is interesting is to turn this question around and put in another thread (as we have done) the issue of PU responsibilities when he may have a play at 3B. The question is: do you move up 1B line, or move more towards the center of the field, or stay in foul territory, or move up the 3B line, etc.

8 or 10 respondents will tell you to "Follow your priorities." Your first priority is the B-R and watching for pulled foot or swipe tag or interference. Second priority is runner into 3B.

So now you are saying that you cannot depend on your partner (PU) because he is got other things to do than watch the B-R all to way to 1B.

Well, if that is true then you might as well make the call. It won't matter if the coach asks you to discuss it with your partner because he wasn't watching anyway.

If your partner is following correct mechanics, then why not get his opinion before you make the call. I don't believe in guessing at a call and then transferring the responsibility to the coach to get involved in order to get the call right.

This mechanic should only be used when you are not absolutely sure that you saw the play. If you are comfortable with your decision - make the call. Then if a coach disagrees you can review the play with your partner and maybe, or maybe not you will change the call. But when you are not sure, get help first. It helps to sell the call!

WMB

Like I said - I have only asked my partner about a pulled foot before making the call a handful of times. And I've never heard a squawk on any of those. But again, only check first if you're not positive - and with the hustling & getting the best angle possible, you should not need to very often.

I like to make the call. first you are letting the players know if the ball beat the runner. If I think the foot is pulled I like to sell it. If I don't call the pulled foot a quick glance at the PU to make sure he is in position to help. If you know someone is out of position to make that call, then no sense in asking for help. Players and coaches can see if he is out of position and asking him for help just makes it look like a yes man call.

Darrell,

I'm just the opposite and there is no way that will ever change. If I have a call, I make the call. Since umpires cannot always be in the best position, you go with what your brain tells you what your eyes saw.

I have no problem checking with my partner if the request is based on my partner having a better angle. It happens and I'm going to try to get it correct. Also, I get very little argument and often a "thank you" whether the team get's their way or not.

Now, try going to a partner before making a call only to find out he didn't see the play. If this happens, you have no choice, but to call the runner safe because no one can state the runner was put out. And it doesn't make a damn bit of difference if the BR was two strides shy of the base when the throw arrived.

You also need to remember that the PUs primary responsibility is NOT always trailing the BR and becomes even less so the closer another runner gets to the plate.

If you do it and it works, that's fine, I have no problem with it. However, it should be the exception, not the routine. You also have to remember that not everyone works with the same partners every day. This year, I believe I only worked with the same partner on multiple nights twice and that can make a difference.

I SEE WHERE YOURE COMING FROM, BUT IF IM WORKING WITH SOMEONE THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING, I KNOW THEY WILL BE WHERE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO. I NEVER ASK IF THE UMPIRE HAS OTHER RESPONSIBILITES, SO THAT NEVER BECOMES AN ISSUE. IVE JUST ALWAYS BEEN TAUGHT, (AND TAUGHT) TO NOT BE AFRAID TO GO TO YOUR PARTNER IN SPECIAL SITUATIONS. BUT WHATEVER WORKS, WORKS...

Mike said,

"Now, try going to a partner before making a call only to find out he didn't see the play. If this happens, you have no choice, but to call the runner safe because no one can state the runner was put out. And it doesn't make a damn bit of difference if the BR was two strides shy of the base when the throw arrived."

This is why it is important on what you ask your partner. If it is a private converation you're welcome to say "I had my head up mu butt on that one" but if you're making it across the field you leave your partner an out in case he didn't see it. "Do you have a pulled foot?" rather than "Did she pull her foot?" "Do you have a tag?" "Rather than did she tag her?" NEVER "Was she safe?" or "What's your call?"

And while you are having this conversation, who is watching the other runners?

Im ASSUMING only one runner... any other situation negates this whole conversation, doesnt it?

May be right, may be wrong, but I was always taught to look at your partner. If they are in position for you to get some help, point at them ask " Did she pull her foot?" or "Your call!", whatever. But, you never do it if you have any doubts about the positioning of your partner to help you. Then, we never have a conversation until all play has stopped. In this situation, you make the call, let the play, if any other is possible, end, then talk to your partner, if the coach asks you to.

Right? Wrong?

This is where teaching this as a regular mechanic becomes an issue.

Many of the mechanics are pretty generic, and a lot of that is caused by the consideration of how much an umpire can retain in "situational" circumstances. Henry and I had this discussion in Plant City during the ISF seminars.

Consideration must be given to keeping the mechanics as standard as possible.

As Billy P once said, there should be an advance school for mechanics, but a school for advanced mechanics. Remember, the taught mechanics are for the 42,000+ registered umpires, 95% of which will never get past the state level.

Well, ouch!!!! This has been a week for barbs, hasn't it? I was just asking for right or wrong, not an overall evaluation of the inferior mechanics classes I attended. The mechanic I was talking about was taught by a STATE UIC for ASA in a clinic, just a coupla years ago. So I guess this brings up another question. Do we listen to what is supposed to be one of the top people in our State for ASA, or ignore it? And, Mike, how do we know who to listen to?

And for thin skin.

Mike was only speaking relative to facts. Just like any other skill, umpiring mechanics must be learned and practiced and learned again and practiced and fine tuned and practiced some more. Exception: Reyo on eteamz ;)

The basic mechanics will cover the common cases and allow a moderately skilled crew to get in position for the vast majority of the calls, while keeping the mechanics simple enough that most can get it right.

Misapplied, the "ask before the call" mechanic can leave both partners in a no win situation. If the PU is not in position to make the call, then he can offer no help. Yet the BU has already admitted he couldn't see, so everyone will know his call is a guess.

An experienced partnership can have this in their tool kit. Others might be better off making the call and checking if the coach asks.

Pulled foot appeal
 

Point to the PU and get the call right the first time, if possible. No need to "sell out" and run up the line with your head turned!!!

You can "gravitate" toward 3rd (if the situation warrants it), but still keep your eyes on the play at first. They are not going to throw the ball from first to third before you can get in a reasonable position to make the call @ 3rd.

I teach our umpires stay with priorities!

Nothing more aggravating that a PU telling a FU that, for instance, "I didn't see the play, I was watching the player touch home plate". Who cares about the runner touching home plate? If they were happening simultaneously (play @ 1st and runner touching home plate), the runner at home was OBVIOUSLY safe, and the play at first takes precedence.

By not going to partner immediately, you have to make the "out" call and wait to see if they appeal it. What if it was the 3rd out? The first baseman hears "out", and rolls the ball to the mound. Then they ask for appeal, while runners have been running, and possibly leaving the field toward the dugout.

Can be messy. If you ask for help first, however, then you always have the out by the fact that the runners and fielders should have never stopped playing until they heard the "out" call (if it were the 3rd out).

Too many reasons to "appeal" immediately.

Re: Pulled foot appeal
 

That may be right and fine, but as we all know, what is taught in the clinics is not always translated to the field. This is where it is better to make the call, then if asked, go to your partner. That way, there isn't a chance that a PU who wasn't thinking in priorities will look bad, nor will the BU who makes the call, and then when asked, goes to his partner.

Re: Pulled foot appeal
 

ASA mechanics are made for all games. In Men's SP, it is not uncommon at all levels to see runner taking shortcuts at the bases. An umpire's priority is to do 100% of the job, not just what makes everyone else's life a bit easier. Seeing a runner taking an 8 foot shortcut at 2B or 3B is just as important as a pulled foot three bases away from the scoring of a run.

As Tom stated, experience and practice among umpires is what makes coverage good. It's much like a BU coming inside on a ball to the outfield. As umpires develop, they peak over their shoulder as long as they can and still see the BR touch 1B. Experience allows umpires to develop a sense for the game than many players will never attain.

You always listen to your State umpires. However, you should also make every effort to attend clinics where other clinicians, particularly members of the NUS, offer presentations. Things change and usually because someone has come up with a better idea. Sometimes they are accepted at all levels, sometimes not.

As a rookie softball umpire, I use to hunt down umpires who have returned from Nationals just to see what had been added or changed as an acceptable mechanic as that is often where new mechanics are given a test run.

You also have UICs that are not locked down to a single organization and will import mechanics taught in another sanctioning body's game. Unless terribly different, most are nothing, but simple nuances that just may give the umpire a different view and are not a big deal. At other times, there are differing mechanics caused by the way a rule for different bodies are interpreted.

Just my opinion. I'll do it the way I was taught until I'm taught differently.

BTW, I have used the mechanic you prescribed at a major national a few years ago. It involved a run down between 3B and home. U3 had the inside and I was on the outside. A player lunged at the runner and apparently tagged him on the other side which I could not see. I immediately pointed to my partner with the question "Was there a tag?" I got a blank stare in return. Twice more I asked if there was a tag and eventually got a safe call. No matter what happened after that, I was cooked. BTW, my partner was a highly experienced umpire, he just wasn't ready for the question. Never again will I do that without giving up the call altogether.

Mike,

I agree with you as I know Billy P as I had him for a school and for a UIC at a National. He conducted on the field mechanics for the National crew the day we came in, and we had to be there the night before and go out to the fields early! Then after we'd sweated our butts off, very little time was left to shower, dress in business clothes and get to the umpires and coaches luncheon. Then the opening cerimonies. Whew! Not many folks stayed up late that night in the hospitality suite with their adult beverages! We were too tired! LOL
I learned some different techniques from him that I'd never learned in 10 years of regional clinics and several national schools.
AZBIGDAWG, remember about the word assume?
Lastly, if you deviate, communicate! (somehow, someway)

What I meant, maam...is that the question reallyu only applies with one runner..with more than one runner the HP umpire will have other duties,and you are on your own.

I do think if you are hanging on the line to help with that pulled foot that a lot of throws will beat you back to 3b and you will be making a tag call a long way from the play.
Even if you are floating towards 3b every step takes you to a different angle on the play at 1b, but every step not taken keeps you farther from 3B.
I know one of my weeknesses is that I truly belive on tag plays you need to get there. We all get caught on occasion away from a play. Don't you hate making that close call from too far away.
You can help but the BU has to make some kind of call if the runner starts to advance from 2b to 3b you better get your butt moving.

"I do think if you are hanging on the line to help with that pulled foot that a lot of throws will beat you back to 3b and you will be making a tag call a long way from the play."

This is true, but it is a mater of priorities. Where are you most likely to run into a situation where you'll have to eject a coach? At least one of the sanctioning bodies who's banner I work under tells me the pulled foot at 1B is my priority and they accept my distance on the play at 3B.

"I know one of my weeknesses is that I truly belive on tag plays you need to get there. We all get caught on occasion away from a play. Don't you hate making that close call from too far away."

I'll take the angle - any & every time - first. If I can get closer, I will, but angle first. And when I sell the call, you will suddenly think I must have been a lot closer to that play than you initially thought - because I will move closer during the sell.

Steve thanks for the input.
I just discovered this forum about a month ago and it really has helped me evaluate myself just by reading these threads. I have never attended a clinic and have relied on reading the book(ASA) and manual on a regular bases.
I work 6-7 days(60-75hrs) a week at my business so my expereince has all been in local rec SP leagues(about 2000 games). I have umpired since 1981 with about 5 years off while my son(soccer) & daughter(track) were in high school. I did do some LL senior and junior games while my kids were in LL and a few FP games when I started. I have never umpired at the level that some of the contributors of this forum have.

No problem - glad to have you on board. You'll find a really broad range of umpires here along with the various levels we all work. I can relate to the 65+ hours a week. I no longer work for myself, but still put in longer than the normal 40 on a regular basis.