Does The Pitcher Have to Show The Ball????

fastballb · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 26, 2004, 02:22pm

Many times this year umpires warned my pitchers that they must first show the ball to the batter before bringing the hands together(start with the ball on the hip they said)...
Then you can bring your hands together and start your pitching motion....NFHS rule (high school) I am yet to find this rule in the rulebook...I watched the USA team play a few days ago and Fernandez started with the ball behind her back the whole time(the batter never seen the ball) Other pitchers started with the ball in the glove and then brought the hands together(yet the batter never seen the ball).I think in ASA rules you can start you pre-motion with the ball behind your back, ball on your hip or leg, or ball already in the pitchers glove....But what are the rules for NFHS......Thanks..

Dakota · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 26, 2004, 02:30pm

Quote:

Originally posted by fastballb
I am yet to find this rule in the rulebook

Try the slow pitch section.

There is no fast pitch (NFHS or ASA) requirement for the pitcher to show the ball.

Bagman62 · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 26, 2004, 02:34pm

NFHS Rule 6 art. 1 a "with ball in glove or pitching hand, and with hands separated". There is no requirement to show the ball

ASA Rule 6 Section 1. D "The ball must remain in the glove or pitching hand" There is no requirment to show the ball.

I hope this helps.

[Edited by Bagman62 on Jul 26th, 2004 at 05:10 PM]

SactoBlue · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 26, 2004, 03:38pm

This brings up a point. As I understand the rule (ASA) ball can be in either hand while taking signs. Hands then come together for at least 1 second and no more than 10 seconds. Does there have to be a pause when the hands come together ...... or can the hands come together, stay together during a portion of the windup while hands are moving, then apart for the pitch?

Dakota · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 26, 2004, 03:47pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SactoBlue
can the hands come together, stay together during a portion of the windup while hands are moving, then apart for the pitch?

Yes.

chuck chopper · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 26, 2004, 03:59pm

Hey gang, I brought the subject of hands coming together about two months ago. It was more or less decided that a pitcher could smack both hands together and that was good enough. Actually putting the ball in the glove with the bare hand wasn't required as I have had many pitchers just touch the ball to the glove. There was/is never a stop/pause with the hands together.

Dakota · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 26, 2004, 04:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by chuck chopper
Hey gang, I brought the subject of hands coming together about two months ago. It was more or less decided that a pitcher could smack both hands together and that was good enough. Actually putting the ball in the glove with the bare hand wasn't required as I have had many pitchers just touch the ball to the glove. There was/is never a stop/pause with the hands together.

There is the (largely unenforced) 1 sec minimum time for the hands to be together, but otherwise the ball can be in the hand or in the glove, hidden or visible, and at the touch the hands can be stopped or in motion.

IRISHMAFIA · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 26, 2004, 06:27pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dakota

Quote:

Originally posted by fastballb
I am yet to find this rule in the rulebook

Try the slow pitch section.

There is no fast pitch (NFHS or ASA) requirement for the pitcher to show the ball.

Speaking ASA

There is no requirement in SP, either, to "present" the ball. Hasn't been for over 15 years.

The only requirement in SP is that the ball is in front of the body while facing the plate. It can be held in the bare hand, glove or both and not necessarily visible to the batter.

Chuck, don't hijack the thread, this is a different issue.

SactoBlue · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 27, 2004, 07:56pm

OK, since I wasn't a part of this forum 2 months ago, is there or is there not a minimum 1 second requirement for the hands to be together? If this were "Nationals" would this be called?

I agree, lots of girls "slap" the ball to the glove and go directly to the windup but a "slap" isn't construed as 1 second is it?

Bagman62 · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 27, 2004, 08:19pm

12 and Under Nationals ASA 2003, Marietta GA never called IP for less than 1 second stop.

IRISHMAFIA · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 28, 2004, 06:18am

Quote:

Originally posted by SactoBlue
OK, since I wasn't a part of this forum 2 months ago, is there or is there not a minimum 1 second requirement for the hands to be together? If this were "Nationals" would this be called?

I agree, lots of girls "slap" the ball to the glove and go directly to the windup but a "slap" isn't construed as 1 second is it?

The point of the rule is to force the pitcher to bring the hands together (or appear to do so as the umpires cannot cover a 360 degree angle). This is required so the batter and umpire know when the pitch starts.

SactoBlue · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 28, 2004, 12:58pm

I realize the point of the rule ...... so we know when the pitch is "supposed" to start ..... the question is ..... are we, as an umpiring group, enforcing it for the most part or not? I surely don't want to start something locally that most Blues simply don't worry about and create problems for me. I want to be on firm ground to enforce the darn thing and have the confidence I'm right and not be a jerk.....probably can't do that if I'm umping right?

Thanks

DaveASA/FED · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 28, 2004, 01:18pm

SactoBlue,
I do understand where you are coming from. I think one thing that it depends on the level of play as to how many IP's you call. If you are doing a small rec league where the pitchers are just starting and are struggling to find how to pitch I wouldn't call many Illegal Pitches, BUT I would most defiantly talk to the pitcher and her coach and point out every thing she is doing that is illegal. Normally I do this after the inning and to a point where they don't screw the poor girl up and get her in a mental state where she can't throw at all! (Girls and their emotions!!) But I make sure they know of their little mistakes so they can correct them. In the local league I do I start off with this approach and then start to enforce the IP's toward the end of the season so they have had time to get the basics and learn the right way to pitch! I know this is a little off topic so back to your exact question. I will give you my opinion and what I have learned from the clinics I have been too. 1 second is not long at all!! And since the hands can be moving when they are in contact it all depends on when you start and stop counting whether there has been one second. What I mean is picture a girl with ball on hip starting pitch by bringing ball to glove in a swinging motion up to her chest and back down, glove into leg, ball into windmill, now when do we start counting? When the ball is blocked from out view as PU (we almost have to as we can't actually see when it touches from our view, right? And neither can the batter, she knows the hands are (about) together and that the pitch is about to start and that is the intent of the rule as Mike has pointed out. So yes the book says no less than one second, but I wonder how many you will actually see that are truly less than one second.

SactoBlue · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 28, 2004, 02:12pm

Thanks, I'm with you on this ....... lower rec, beginning pitchers ...... help them out by pointing out what's not right .... time goes by, begin to enforce rule but still keep the spirit of the game.....if opposing coaches are not complaining why traumatize when no one cares.

I had one of those "anal" coaches who "teaches" pitchers at the 14 and under groups and wanted it called everytime during a tourney....this and the "crow hop" too when it "might" have ocurred every 5th pitch or so. I guess, my bottom line was, no advantage, no foul and I'm not going to make a travesty of the game because you're absolutely literal in your approach to how the pitcher should pitch.

Elaine "Lady Blue" · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 28, 2004, 04:03pm

No offense to Sancto or anyone else, but the "showing the ball"
question comes up every year. Why don't coaches, players, umpires, etc., read the rule books?????? And as for umpires, doesn't everyone have associations that have rules clinics, take the tests each year, etc., etc.???
Umpires, if YOU are in an association that does not, look for another to join that does or propose the ideas to your president, board or UIC. A well informed umpire association can only improve and enhance your skills.
Here in Atlanta, associations invite coaches to attend some clinics where mythological or antiquated rules can be put to rest. Even when I had a group, I personally invited every single coach from every team to the UIC rules clinic. We opened the floor at the end to field questions.