OBSTRUCTION

[MichaelVA2000]

Runners at first and second base, two outs and a 2-2 count on the batter. As the pitch is delivered, the runner from second breaks for third. I call the pitch a strike and the catcher drops the ball, the batter takes off for first base. As the catcher throws to third I hear "that's obstruction at third" come from my partner and he's giving the signal. F5 tags the runner and my partner says "stay on the base, I have obstruction on the third baseman, the runner is safe." The batter runner has reached first base, but the runner who was at first stopped running when she heard my partner call the runner at third safe and declared obstuction. F5 sees the runner between first and second and throws to F4 who tags the runner and my partner bangs her out.

No coaches came out about any of the calls.

Does anybody but me see a problem with this play?

Michael

[Bluefoot]

Once F5 tagged the lead runner at 3B after the obstruction, a dead ball should have been called, so the runner going from 1B to 2B should not have been called out.

[scottk_61]

When an obstructed runner has been put out, the ball is dead. This is why obstruction is called a DELAYED DEAD BALL.
The runner between 1st and 2nd should have been sent back to 1st.

Originally posted by scottk_61
When an obstructed runner has been put out, the ball is dead. This is why obstruction is called a DELAYED DEAD BALL.
The runner between 1st and 2nd should have been sent back to 1st.

I agree, but wouldn't you put the runner between 1st and 2nd on 2nd, since they are now forced due to BR becoming runner (D3K rule)?

Serg

[Steve M]

If the runner was tagged out at 3B, I agree that the ball is dead & awards are to be made. But this post almost sounds as if the runner was ON 3rd when the tag was made. Wild thought here as I get ready for some vacation time........ If that's the case, then this runner was not tagged out, so the ball is live and the runner going from 1B to 2B is now out on that tag.

Now, on the field, I am going to have a dead ball when the tag is made at 3B. And I'll put the runner from 1B on 2B since the B-R now has 1B.

[scottk_61]

Originally posted by VaASAump

I agree, but wouldn't you put the runner between 1st and 2nd on 2nd, since they are now forced due to BR becoming runner (D3K rule)?

Serg

No, the runner should not be entitled to advance further unless your judgement says the obstruction also affected that runner.
The way the sitch is written, the runner should return to the last base legally touched.

How would you come up with a way of explaining why that runner should be advanced to the next base?
Wouldn't that be over penalizing the defense?

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by scottk_61
When an obstructed runner has been put out, the ball is dead. This is why obstruction is called a DELAYED DEAD BALL.
The runner between 1st and 2nd should have been sent back to 1st.

Hmmmm

Scott,

What you going to do with BR if sending R2 back to 1st?

[FUBLUE]

In the post, the runner was between 1B and 2B, standing there looking dumb. Once the obstructed runner is put out, we have a dead ball. Runner between 1B and 2B can't be put out.

Where to put them?

Do you feel runner would have reached 2B safely had you not killed the ball at 3B? Then in my book we must put them at 2B. If not, we reward the defense for making an illegal play...we leave runner at third and move runner back to 1B?

One way or the other, runner needs to be returned to a base since the obstructed runner MUST HAVE been put out since your partner said what he said. DEAD BALL.

[WestMichBlue]

Scottk: "No, the runner should not be entitled to advance further unless your judgement says the obstruction also affected that runner."

Not quite true; the runner is "harmed" not by the obstruction, but by your calling Dead Ball.

The correct mechanic is (1) signal OBS, (2) call dead ball when the runner is tagged out, (2) immediatley find other runners.

The obstructed runner is positioned where you judge she would have reached had she not been obstucted; The other runners are positioned where they would have been had you not killed the play. General rule of thumb is "half-way" rule; if more than half-way to next base, send them to that base.

That is the normal mechanic; however, in this case I don't think that you can send B-R back home if she wasn't half-way. So if B-R is at 1B, R2, regardless of how far she advanced, has to be at 2B.

BTW - if I had been BU I bet that I would have seen that foot touch 3B (accidental or not) and I'd have called the force out long before obstruction and/or tag would have become an issue.

WMB

[IRISHMAFIA]

IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE!

You have three active runners, none of which are out and you must have an individual base for each one!

Damn, come on, guys! Y'all overthinking this by a mile and a half.

If the obstructed runner was tagged OUT, the ball is dead. If the obstructed runner was not tagged out, the ball is live and R2 would be retired for the 3rd out.

However, if the BU told the obstructed runner to stay on the base, I would consider the ball dead as the umpire has now started assigning bases to the obstructed runner. That means that R2 cannot be ruled out under any circumstance. Was it screwed up by the BU, only if R1 was on the base when tagged with the ball.

Even if the umpire kicked the play on a misinterpretation of the rule, he cannot turn around and rule R2 out as the original call placed the runner in jeopardy.

See? Piece of cake

[teacherspit]

It is the umps' decision on how many bases the obstructed runner would have made. If obstruction was on the second base side of third and the ball is there, kill play and award third. On the home side of third and the ball is coming there. Kill the play and award home. All other runners are moved up if forced by BR.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by teacherspit
It is the umps' decision on how many bases the obstructed runner would have made. If obstruction was on the second base side of third and the ball is there, kill play and award third. On the home side of third and the ball is coming there. Kill the play and award home. All other runners are moved up if forced by BR.

Don't know where that comes from, but speaking ASA, the side of the base where the obstruction occurred has NOTHING to do with the awarded base.

[greymule]

In my opinion, ASA's code would be more sensible if it did not delay the dead ball until the runner was put out but instead called for an immediate dead ball when a runner being played on was obstructed. They could reserve a delayed dead ball for situations in which the runner was not being directly played on.

In other words, I think OBR's system is better. It avoids situations in which, after an obstruction call, the defense can benefit from poor play. In the example that started the thread, the defense loses if it tags the runner from 2B out—the ball is dead and everybody's safe. But if they drop the ball on the tag, they still have a play on the runner between 1B and 2B.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by greymule
In my opinion, ASA's code would be more sensible if it did not delay the dead ball until the runner was put out but instead called for an immediate dead ball when a runner being played on was obstructed. They could reserve a delayed dead ball for situations in which the runner was not being directly played on.

In other words, I think OBR's system is better. It avoids situations in which, after an obstruction call, the defense can benefit from poor play. In the example that started the thread, the defense loses if it tags the runner from 2B out—the ball is dead and everybody's safe. But if they drop the ball on the tag, they still have a play on the runner between 1B and 2B.

Rubbish! ASA's (and most of the other softball org) obstruction rule is just fine and relatively simple to understand.

[teacherspit]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Don't know where that comes from, but speaking ASA, the side of the base where the obstruction occurred has NOTHING to do with the awarded base.

Any obstruction between third and home the runner is awarded home. If the runner is obstructed before reaching third and the ball is inflight to third a play is being made on an obstructed runner. The play is killed and the runner awarded third.
Of course if the ump felt that an obstructed runner could have gotten more than one base he will award.