Crow Hop?

For the kids · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 07:33pm

I covered this on my Base on Balls Thread but curious if anyone that hasn't read it would like to share their opinion. We have a girl in our 10-12yr old league that pushes off the pitching plate and leaps. Her release point is from where she is landing and after she lands--about 2-4 feet in front of the pitching plate depending on which hole you measure from. There are definitely 2 holes from where she was landing and no sign of a drag between the pitching plate and the first hole. After one game it had rained and the holes where she was landing had filled up but there was no trough between. Even though girls in the 8th grade+ league have been called this girl has not. They do use more experienced umpires for the older league. Is this a legal delivery? Is their anything you can do if the umpire won't call it? She can be quite wild and has knocked girls right off their feet.

whiskers_ump · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 07:43pm

No not legal.

Meets all the qualifications of a crow hop,
and sounds dangerous. Get a qualified umpire.

I am sure that REYO could offer you some advice, but
well he is probably busy yakking at Tom.

Tom,
Did you read the post where he says this is his 3rd year
of umpiring? No wonder he knows everything.

TexBlue · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 08:09pm

I agree with Glen, it sure sounds like a crow hop, but, man, that is one hard thing to do. Try it some time. If the girl is younger and not very good, it may just be a plain ole leap, but it sure sounds like a crow hop.

For the kids · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 08:18pm

I have tried it and agree it is hard to do and takes some work to get your timing to land and then throw. Her older sister had pitched for years and I know she has gone to clinics and even played on a traveling team but as a third baseman. She never got her accuracy either. Although this year is the first year I have seen her little sister play (as we play in a bigger league in the city) my guess would be that they have been working with her. We live in a small community where they live and breath that "their daughter" will be the next starting varsity pitcher.

Dakota · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 29, 2004, 08:28am

Do you use 2 umpires?

The footwork violations are hard to see from behind the plate. Not because they absolutely can't be seen, but because the plate umpire's primary resonsibility is the pitch, so he will be focusing on the upper body, not the feet.

Skahtboi · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 29, 2004, 01:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by For the kids
Although this year is the first year I have seen her little sister play (as we play in a bigger league in the city) my guess would be that they have been working with her. We live in a small community where they live and breath that "their daughter" will be the next starting varsity pitcher.

If they want this "dream" to come true, they had better work with her a lot more and get rid of the illegal pitching motion.

FUBLUE · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 29, 2004, 01:57pm

Does she take pitching lessons? I've actually taught a girl to crow hop as a timing thing (also adds a little velocity to pitch

) but always took it out of her motion.

Maybe they're not there yet in lessons...but it's still illegal in game play.

For the kids · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 29, 2004, 03:43pm

First of all there is only 1 umpire who stands behind her. They don't even watch her from the side when she warms up as if they have all accepted it as legal for some reason. I realize it is difficult to call unless you are in the right position but she makes no attempt to hide it either.

Interesting about the lessons. I never thought about that and you could be correct as once she gets to High School I don't envision PIAA allowing it. That might be what they are doing. Thanks for that insight and your answers. You have all been very helpful in letting me know. I am glad that I am not losing my mind and there are still some that use that thing called a rulebook.

whiskers_ump · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 29, 2004, 04:20pm

No,

Cause Steve M. will be watching.....

FUBLUE · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 12:12pm

Quote:

Originally posted by For the kids

Interesting about the lessons. I never thought about that and you could be correct as once she gets to High School I don't envision PIAA allowing it. That might be what they are doing. Thanks for that insight and your answers. You have all been very helpful in letting me know. I am glad that I am not losing my mind and there are still some that use that thing called a rulebook.

There's a coach in this area who teaches a progression of illegal stuff...he's a men's pitcher, so that's part of it.

He teaches a step...looks like "dragging the foot across the pitching plate" or "sliding the pivot foot forward on the pitching plate" but it's a step. Says it helps the girls learn to push with both legs, not just the back leg.

He then takes the step out once the motion is consistent.

THen he adds a crow-hop...true crow hop, hands together, replant, then throw.

Swears this helps them with delivery and getting hips clear before release.

Then takes it out, putting in the drag.

I saw him recently and asked about advantages/disadvantages. He doesn't see much, except the distance being shorter. But he added that a good "push and dragger" will be the same distance away from batter as his "crow-hopper" once the ball is released.

Ever see a girl walk into her warm up pitches? Same concept. Helps get the hips open and the whole body involved.

Makes sense, and since I do know he is a good pitcher and a good coach, I'll believe him.

Says it takes him about 3-5 months to work through the progression with a "rookie" pitcher.

Just FYI

[Edited by FUBLUE on Jun 30th, 2004 at 01:14 PM]