ball in play hits bat used

[cmtsguy22]

Situation: runners on 1ts and 2nd. Batter hits the ball to the LC fielder. The ump grabs the bat and tosses it to the side to get it out of the baseline to avoid a possible injury.

The throws comes into home trying to throw the runner who started on 2nd out. The throw is wild, BUT it hits the bat that the ump tossed to the side. The ball then bounces off the bat and away from the catcher letting the runner who started on first to score, batter ends up on 3rd base.

What is the call? Do the runners go back to the previous base as if the ball didn't hit the bat, which the ump tossed to that spot, they would not have advanced the one more base, or do they score and move into 3rd like they did?

[kellerumps]

Runs Score....Batter-Runner is on 3rd.

[whiskers_ump]

Naturally the Kellerumps have it correct.

Added note: That is why I never touch a bat. Not my
(or any umpires) job to remove the bat.

[chuck chopper]

If I pick up a bat, I keep it in my hand until just before I have to make a call. This changes occasionally to fit the situation however.

[Dakota]

I don't mess with players' equipment until the play is over. Then I may pick up a bat or the catcher's helmet.

Are you guys saying you wouldn't pick up a bat that's laying in the basepath? What if a runner doesn't have time to stop and pick it up and rolls an ankle? Guess who the courts will say is liable in this situation.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
Are you guys saying you wouldn't pick up a bat that's laying in the basepath? What if a runner doesn't have time to stop and pick it up and rolls an ankle? Guess who the courts will say is liable in this situation.

The bat manufacturer?

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
Are you guys saying you wouldn't pick up a bat that's laying in the basepath? What if a runner doesn't have time to stop and pick it up and rolls an ankle? Guess who the courts will say is liable in this situation.

Ref Ump Welsch,

Suppose the bat you moved caused the same
problem? If you never touched the bat, you cannnot be
liable. No where in the rules, or at any umpire clinic
does it state, we as umpires are to remove a carelessly
thrown bat.

[Dukat]

I was thinking about this exact thing last night when a few times a bat was thrown directly across the line between 3rd and home. I think this is going to be one of those subjects where it is half and half. Half think move it and the other half think do not touch it in any circumstance. I personally have always been torn in the situation and most of the time move it if I see I have a chance to do so without affecting my duties. In many cases that involves just kicking it out of the way the best I can other times if I have plenty of time I might pick it up and chunk it away from everything. I would be really interested to see how most of you guys handle this. Maybe it will change my thought processes on it one way or another as right now I am straddling the fence. I do it a lot but at times feel weird about it because of the issues mentioned.

[IRISHMAFIA]

I developed a bad habit of moving the bat out of the way with my foot. Never bend over to pick up the bat, I would just kick it out of the way. On many occasion, that would be halfway to 1B if the play was coming from anywhere other than the right side.

Luckily, I have never taken this anywhere other than the local fields and am working to completely break myself of the habit.

The umpire should never handle any equipment, including the ball. It's the player's game, let them deal with it.

BTW, this is true even after the play. You may think you are being courteous in picking up a bat or helmet, but, once again, this is the player's equipment. I've seen catchers and on deck batters throw the equipment back to the ground after it was handed to them. I assume it was a superstition thing, but if that is part of their game, it is not for the umpire to interfere.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
I've seen catchers and on deck batters throw the equipment back to the ground after it was handed to them. I assume it was a superstition thing, but if that is part of their game, it is not for the umpire to interfere.

I've seen pitchers drop the ball if handed to them by anyone other than F2, but I haven't seen that from batters or catchers (but then, I'm not dealing with AAs).

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Dukat
...because of the issues mentioned.

I think we tend to WAY overblow the fear of litigation thing. As a lawyer I know is fond of saying, you can sue anyone for anything, but winning is another matter.

I noticed the fan who tried to sue the Brewers (I think I have the team right) over an injury caused by a foul ball had the suit tossed out of court.

I would expect the same thing here, hence my wise guy answer to the question about liability.

Besides, it would be an issue between the plaintiff and my insurance carrier anyway.

Moving the bat will actually lessen your liability, because you will be negligent in leaving it where it was. By leaving the bat in the basepath, and knowing it was there, you establish negligence.

Tom,

It will not be just between the plaintiff and the insurance company. You'll get deposed in the process. Just because it doesn't make it to court doesn't mean your life will get probed into.

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
Moving the bat will actually lessen your liability, because you will be negligent in leaving it where it was. By leaving the bat in the basepath, and knowing it was there, you establish negligence.

Wrong. If you had nothing to do with the bat being there, and you didn't since it was the result of the play, then there is no way that you can be held liable or even considered negligent for not doing anything about it. It is a public field, being used by the public, for the intent that it was designed and established for. Your statement here is akin to saying something along the lines of, there is ice on the street, and if you are aware of it and fail to remove it, you will be liable for any accidents that occur. That is total BS, and you know it. Now, if this was your own private property that you had someone playing ball on, your argument may hold water.

However, it is the legal gurus for the various associations who have for years told umpires not to handle equipment, because if anything happens to a player as a result, then you are liable. By not moving equipment, by not even touching it, there is absolutely no way that you can be liable.