Rule Help Needed @ Illegal Reentry

[Buddogger]

Player A is injured in field but remains in game (goes to catcher). Player A bats next inning and hits a clean single, hobbling to 1st base safely. Player A is immediately replaced on 1st base by Player B.

Question: can this be considered a legal "substitution" or must it be considered a "courtesy runner"?

The reentry of Player A is contingent upon the answer in our league as players removed for courtesy runners are ineligible for reentry.

In this case, Player A came out to catch the next inning under the substitution reentry rule. I protested siting the courtesy runner rule.

The ump claimed that it was a legal substitution as a pinch-runner and subsequent reentry but I could find no mention of the term "pinch-runner" in the ASA rule book.

4.6.c does read that any player may be removed from the game during any dead ball.

If the substitution was legal under an interpretation of this rule then that does open some interesting possibilities in the use of "pinch-runners" for players. (e.g. I stock a bench of track stars).

Thanks.

[Dakota]

I'm confused as to the grounds for your protest.

The catcher may be replaced on the bases by a courtesy runner. The courtesy runner must be an eligible sub who has not yet entered the game and who has not been the courtesy runner for the pitcher. The player who enters as the coutesy runner may still be used as a legal sub for any other player. When a courtesy runner is used, the player run for (in your case, the catcher) plays their normal position the next time the team goes on defense (i.e. catcher).

The catcher may also be replaced on the bases by a substitute. The ASA book does not use the term "pinch runner" - but that is what it is - a sub to run the bases. In this case, the player who is being run for is removed from the game. That player has one re-entry remaining.

The scenario you described (catcher reaches base and is replaced on the bases by another player and the catcher returns to catch the next half inning) is legal under both rules.

Using the courtesy runner rule, the catcher has not officially left the game and has not used a reentry and the courtesy runner may be used as a sub for other players.

Using the substitution rule ("pinch runner"), the runner has been entered in the game as a sub for the catcher and has then left the game, and the catcher has left the game and re-entered to play defense.

[Buddogger]

Thanks Tom. Your assessment that the substitution runner and subsequent reentry in the defensive end of the inning being legal was what I expected.

Again, in our league there is a local rule discouraging unnecessary courtesy runners by making the player who uses a courtesy runner ineligible for return to the game. It's an interesting local rule and was the basis of my protest.

Clearly, using the substitution rule with extra players on the bench can provide a means to circumvent this local rule, taking a runner off the bases without losing him for the game. Something to remember.

Thanks again.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Buddogger
Player A is injured in field but remains in game (goes to catcher). Player A bats next inning and hits a clean single, hobbling to 1st base safely. Player A is immediately replaced on 1st base by Player B.

Question: can this be considered a legal "substitution" or must it be considered a "courtesy runner"

Speaking ASA.

Depends on the player. If it was a pitcher or catcher in the FP game, or Master or Seniors in SP, they are permited to have courtesy runners under certain rules. If this not the case, it must be a substitution.

The reentry of Player A is contingent upon the answer in our league as players removed for courtesy runners are ineligible for reentry.

Now you are talking about something completely different, league rules. Since I doubt most of us here participate in your league, you may be asking the wrong folks.

In this case, Player A came out to catch the next inning under the substitution reentry rule. I protested siting the courtesy runner rule.

The ump claimed that it was a legal substitution as a pinch-runner and subsequent reentry but I could find no mention of the term "pinch-runner" in the ASA rule book.

That's because in ASA, a substitution is a substitution. The position that substitution takes on the field are of zero consequence unless it is a person removed from the pitcher's position by rule. The sub must always be in a specific position in the batting order and cannot be in the game at the same time as the person for which they entered the game. IOW, unless in violation of a rule, ASA doesn't care whether it is as a pinch-runner, pinch-hitter, etc.

4.6.c does read that any player may be removed from the game during any dead ball.

If the substitution was legal under an interpretation of this rule then that does open some interesting possibilities in the use of "pinch-runners" for players. (e.g. I stock a bench of track stars).

Nothing new there, but you better make sure you understand all of the substitution and reentry rules before you end up with a bunch of runners who cannot play defense on the field.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Buddogger
Player A is injured in field but remains in game (goes to catcher). Player A bats next inning and hits a clean single, hobbling to 1st base safely. Player A is immediately replaced on 1st base by Player B.

Question: can this be considered a legal "substitution" or must it be considered a "courtesy runner"?

All you have to do is say to the manager, "Is this a courtsey runner or a subsitution?"

[Buddogger]

Indeed, I realize that now.

At the time I assumed it was a courtesy runner as the player's ankle was injured. Therefore my surprise when he returned in the field and later at bat.

You live and you learn.

[mcrowder]

Note - there is a difference between a courtesy runner for an injured player (which, if in effect, is a local rule, not an ASA rule). If you are outlawing players substituted for due to injury, this is likely what you're referring to, and it's not an ASA rule.

However, ASA rules allow courtesy runners for pitchers and catchers as a normal matter. Has nothing to do with injury (at least not directly - the rule may have come about due to fear of injury to those critical positions) of the particular player. If your courtesy rule contradicts this ASA rule, you might want to get your local league to clarify in the case that the catcher or pitcher is injured.